The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread

[DR.]

I guess you don't know that i went Sentinel on my Archer.  I have the EK for use on my legionnaire.

So you not mad that Ab somthing that was 2-3m is almost or better in some cases than Ek that 20m ?

Ek
Swing Damage: 62 cut*
Thrust Damage: 40 pierce
Length: 136
Speed: 101*
Weight: 1*
Usable by Sniper Commando

Ab
Swing Damage: 60 cut
Thrust Damage: 44 pierce*
Length: 140*
Speed: 100
Weight: 2.3
Usable by Tr3*

[Sargent Q]

Nope.  I trust that Winter knows what he's doing here. 

[Madjosh]

[quote author=Sargent Q link=topic=47440.msg243118#msg243118 date=1442586265]
I guess you don't know that i went Sentinel on my Archer.  I have the EK for use on my legionnaire.

So you not mad that Ab somthing that was 2-3m is almost or better in some cases than Ek that 20m ?

Ek
Swing Damage: 62 cut*
Thrust Damage: 40 pierce
Length: 136
Speed: 101*
Weight: 1*
Usable by Sniper Commando

Ab
Swing Damage: 60 cut
Thrust Damage: 44 pierce*
Length: 140*
Speed: 100
Weight: 2.3
Usable by Tr3*
[/quote]

Price is dynamic, DWP's used to sell for 300k, now they sell for 13m (so try not to let cost dictate stats when talking about legendaries). Legendary items should have better stats than their nearest similiar craftable and then some. No one complained about the aurora blade's stats when it was a prince drop and the EK was a wave 16 boss drop, it seems like the aurora blade had this coming for a long time especially since the EK was buffed several times over well before changes even begun on the aurora blade. It's a good weapon and it's a reason to go crank some normal runs, seems like this buff is hitting two birds with one stone to me.

[DR.]

Price is dynamic, DWP's used to sell for 300k, now they sell for 13m (so try not to let cost dictate stats when talking about legendaries). Legendary items should have better stats than their nearest similiar craftable and then some. No one complained about the aurora blade's stats when it was a prince drop and the EK was a wave 16 boss drop, it seems like the aurora blade had this coming for a long time especially since the EK was buffed several times over well before changes even begun on the aurora blade. It's a good weapon and it's a reason to go crank some normal runs, seems like this buff is hitting two birds with one stone to me.

I can under stand differences in price over time yet is getting to Prince the same as wave 11+ in Rag i don't think so. (not sure on the wave)

Even then Ek vs Ab i think that to close as i see Ek as Sniper over Commando then Ab being all. Maybe it Speed over cut that the Ek needs in my head to make it fair.

Maybe i have got it wrong about crafted stuff. Going to make the poor not feel to good if that the case then again most of them have a Wormbane,Ab.

[Winter]

Modified rules to allow for more discussion.

In regard to people adding in the drop location of items - don't.  Those are subject to change and can very easily be swapped around.  When is the last time you found an Aurora Blade from the Prince?

As Madjosh said, stats will dictate cost, not the other way around.  This also goes for drop locations and rates - they are related to the item's stats and relative tier, rather than having the stats always adjusted through a patch to adjust for them.  The idea is to make legendary items feel more legendary: they need to be better than craftables, come from enemies you would not always expect, and add some more excitement into the game.

The Eastern Katana is still better than the Aurora Blade, just by a smaller margin.  The Aurora Blade is moving up to being T4 locked to make up for class differences, leaving the Worm Bane as the equivalent for lower tiered players, but this may also be subject to change. 

Ab: Needs a Nerf other wise my as well sell Elegant Greatsword,Bidenhander,Forlorn Hope.... for one
Ek: 62c ye dose make scene as crafted have 60+ cut yet Dwarf Axe need a change to 50 something (p) to make it fair ?
Sok: Why ? then Buff Tower
...

This update is good for the people that have some of the weapons yet have made others worth nothing like Justice,Elegant Greatsword,etc...

Those craftable weapons are still slightly better, as previously mentioned.  If people want to continue selling Aurora Blades for dirt cheap, that is their loss.  Buy them while you can.

Dwarf Axe and 50p?  I don't understand what you are talking about at all here.

The Shield of Kings is a direct upgrade to all shields.  It is locked to the shielding classes for that reason.  Other legendary shields do not need to be buffed to compensate for the shield that is better than them being buffed to be better than them.

As for 2h craftable weapons and house crafted weapons, they probably could do with a little tweaking. The boarding axe and butcher were to the best of my knowledge, nerfed to create a bigger gap between craftables and legendaries (namely the EK at the time, having the same cut as the boarding axe and the butcher having even more cut) given that these legendaries have received so much attention lately, I think it would be a good time to look at bringing some of these old weapons back up to speed. Weapons like the talhoffer, highlander claymore and those ugly crusader sword things have always been kinda "meh" in my eyes and always deserved some buffing. the justice/injustice could do with some love aswell, maybe winter could add some flair here and make them different from each other, maybe one being speedy and weak and the other being slow and powerfull, they're both bastard swords so one could be made better with 1 hand than the other i don't know? I could go on for forever about these long forgotten items, but i think I've made my point

Thank you for bringing these up.  They will be looked through later.  However, the next item stat patch will probably focus on something other than Commandos and bring the love to other classes.

So you not mad that Ab somthing that was 2-3m is almost or better in some cases than Ek that 20m ?

If you are posting about stats because you are mad about prices, maybe stat discussions is not the right place for you.

[DR.]

Those craftable weapons are still slightly better, as previously mentioned.  If people want to continue selling Aurora Blades for dirt cheap, that is their loss.  Buy them while you can.

Tr4 changes my mind on a lot of things.

Dwarf Axe and 50p?  I don't understand what you are talking about at all here.

Like how the Mangler has Swing Damage: 55p make it 50p+ or something i don't know what fair as i have 0 to go of other than Mangler.

If you are posting about stats because you are mad about prices, maybe stat discussions is not the right place for you.

I'm not mad but if i had a Ek i would be a little bit.

[Winter]

Tr4 changes my mind on a lot of things.

Like how the Mangler has Swing Damage: 55p make it 50p+ or something i don't know what fair as i have 0 to go of other than Mangler.

I'm not mad but if i had a Ek i would be a little bit.

Okay.

The axe should not do pierce damage.  It is a very cut looking weapon.

I don't see why, as the Eastern Katana also received a buff.  I would be more happy about it being better than the craftable T4 swords now and upset about it not being better before than I would be about the Aurora Blade getting a buff.

Aside from debate on those items, how do people feel about swords having blunt thrusts?  Is this something that should be implemented with more swords? (models pending, but think of things like the War Cleaver)  Are people against it?  Opinions, please.

[DR.]

e from debate on those items, how do people feel about swords having blunt thrusts?  Is this something that should be implemented with more swords? (models pending, but think of things like the War Cleaver)  Are people against it?  Opinions, please.

Most of us will have no clue on how it will change things.

[GheerBox]

I am a little naive to the way damage in modeled in NI when it comes to armor penetration/ignoring of the damage types, but it would make sense, from a real world perspective, for some of the weapons with a more blunt tip to do blunt damage. That said, most, if not all, of the swords I can recall are very pointy.

[Winter]

I am a little naive to the way damage in modeled in NI when it comes to armor penetration/ignoring of the damage types, but it would make sense, from a real world perspective, for some of the weapons with a more blunt tip to do blunt damage. That said, most, if not all, of the swords I can recall are very pointy.

Blunt does around 5% more armor penetration than pierce.  That number is, in most cases, negligible.  A new line of swords would also require new models, most likely along the lines of the War Cleaver.

Most of us will have no clue on how it will change things.

Think of the axes the Varangian Guards use and their ability to thrust.  It would be similar to that.  The main point would be to allow you to use your thrust to knock an enemy off guard/down.  Pierce already does the job pretty well, but the added knock-down chance adding diversity and the sense it would make having a blunted sword thrust to do blunt damage are the main arguments for this addition.