The Item and Class Stat Balance Thread

[PurpleSmart_109]

60c for Swadian hope would put it at the dmg of dragon axe/illustrious, and past many legendary grade swords. It's dmg is where it should be already.

My point is, commando weapons should have significantly more damage than other class melee weapons, I mean it by significant. They should be the best in melee by a huge margin, let it be skill wise or stat wise. 60c for Swadian Hope would do that. Commando would have to spend less to be better in melee.

[DR.]

1st of your idea sounds way to op. Commandos are fine.

Pikes do have some very nice polearms but they don't have hammers (Bring back the old Polehammer!) ,shields/shield skill and good armor. Mar the zwei of pikes with low armor that can throw and halb that dose have some good armor that about as good a market place commandos but cost mills. Commandos also have leg in away it a lot like halb. 

Most runs need rg/good slashers (zwei/mar) commandos could be the most needed class in game to make runs work.


Only class i still think may need a look at is Aventurier but it has some speed i guess that could make it fun.

[Sargent Q]

Pikeman does not out class commando at the same tier. Pikeman legendary slashing weapons are just really cheap because the community does not value them as high as commando.

As for armor, The only classes that can get even close to commando is Xbow and Halbieder. And that is only with top of the line legendary gear that brings them close to house crafted commando.

I also strongly disagree with buffing commando weapons. Especially like the swadian hope. Compairing Swadian Hope with other classes craftables of the same level.

Swadian Hope
Weight: 1.5
Speed Rating: 101
Weapon Reach: 103
Swing Damage: 54c
Thrust Damage: 37p
Strength Required: 7
Obtainable Through: Crafting - Blacksmith level 14

The Stamford
Weight: 1.5
Speed Rating: 102
Weapon Reach: 94
Swing Damage: 46c
Thrust Damage: 32p
Strength Required: 7
Obtainable Through: Crafting - Blacksmith level 13

Knights Sword, a 1 handed hero locked sword

Weight: 1.5
Speed: 101
Weapon Reach: 98
Swing Damage: 51c
Thrust Damage: 32p
Strength Required: 7
Obtainable Through: Crafting - Blacksmith level 13

As you can see, The only stat that either of those 2 beats the hope in is the Stamford has 1 more speed. The knights sword, again a sword for the 1 handed hero classes, is completely out classed by the swadian hope.

When looking at weapons, Always look at the same tier of weapon.

[Winter]

I don't know if it's just me but I think infantry heroes should be buffed in general. They can take 3-4 hits on Hard and Ragnarok before dying, and their weapons aren't that great unless you're rich as hell. Their armors should be buffed to a level where they can take 3-4 swings from beserkers with decent armour like Heavy Lamellar. The role of the infantry heroes in Hard/Ragnarok is to shield or slash, they're pretty good at it, but slashing wise Pikeman heroes can out-damage most Zweihanders unless Zweis have AGS or extremely expensive items.

My suggestion is, buff the commando + hero locked weapons and armour to a significant level, or increase skills of heroes. Infantry is completely melee focused, and when other classes such as pikemans start to out-perform them in melee, they're kinda stuck in shielding only. Archers, pikeman and even xbow already out-damages them, and recently they're being out-damaged in melee as well. Since all heroes have insanely good legendary melee weapons, they can be as strong as commando heroes in melee as long as they have the money for it.

How to fix it? First of all this would be really great for commandos, as they're the least versatile class. At leastly with this, they'd be much stronger than other classes, and there would be a reason to go commando rather than pikeman. Pikeman really overshadows Commando.

My first suggestion is to increase weapon skills ands stats without buffing items. For example, a Zwei could have 300 two handed weapon skill while RG could have 300 one handed skill. The reason behind this is to make commandos significantly more damage dealing than other classes, even when using the same weapons. Their iron flesh could be increased as well to tank more damage.

My second suggestion is to increase weapon stats, but it's not as good as my first suggestion. For example, Swadian Hope could have a whopping 60c damage. Other classes would have to find or buy legendaries to reach the same damage as commando, while commando heroes would spend far less money to be more effective in melee.

Citations please.  I am reading a lot of prose and not a lot of numbers.

[LordChaos]

[... My second suggestion is to increase weapon stats, but it's not as good as my first suggestion. For example, Swadian Hope could have a whopping 60c damage. Other classes would have to find or buy legendaries to reach the same damage as commando, while commando heroes would spend far less money to be more effective in melee. ...]

Are you for real? I mean, I would be glad as I am mostly playing my Royal Guard, but I would clearly say no personnally as.. What the fuck? Did ye get hit by a rock to the head by a Nord or what? xD

Normal equipement having legendary stats ehh.. what ? What kind of solution is this? Imagine if this would be done, don't you think everyone is just going to leave the mod or just go infantry only? I mean holy crap, what about the legendaries then? 

Not a good idea my friend, I see your point, there are some fixes that are possible, alternatives, but buffing, and by so much, would be game breaking at all point. But some CRAFTED weapons and equipements are really underrated, and that's why I would recommend you to check the avaible equipement and see by yourself. You'll see that the regular commando gear that you see all around, even the swadian hope isn't that good. SH is decent, but there are way better alternatives.

[DR.]

So Phoenix Shield is red and Bulwark is not ok why?

Phoenix Hit Points 1500,Resistance 48 (Dragon Kite Shield Hit Points 1400,Resistance 45)
Bulwark Hit Points 1550,Resistance 45 (Resilience Hit Points 1500,Resistance 41)

It 3 Resistance and Hit Points 100 that Phoenix has over Dragon Kite Shield
It 4 Resistance and Hit Points 50 that Bulwark has over Resilience
Almost no difference to add there different. 

Btw if any wants to now Impervious Hit Points 1450,Resistance 47 - Orange is far atm 

All im saying is Bulwark has more of a right to be red atm then hero class stuff that not as good as some tr4 stuff (Zwei helms-->Gothic helm/Vals eg)


All tho i do see some other things that could happen.
Buff Impervious to Resistance 50 so all can be red Or could just follow  a buff of 3 Resistance and Hit Points 100 on all from the crafted versions 
Make Bulwark red and maybe make a small "change" Hit Points 1600,Resistance 44 same as (3 Resistance and Hit Points 100 that Phoenix has over Dragon Kite Shield)
Or buff Phoenix to about Sok Hit Points 1550,Resistance 48 or more 
Leave it how it is which makes no sense 

I See Phoenix buff happening but all being red is my pick gives people options on looks and stats and gives room for a 4th orange shield.

[Xen]

Have you ever heard of mistakes? Those things happen too, not sure if you knew that.

When this shield was added it wasn't entirely supposed to be added to any drop tables or anything so no idea what happened there.

Of course it'll be changed, do you actually think we'd just let a shield that is pretty much a house craftable shield (stats wise) stay as a legendary? No.
Oh and Bulwark won't be red.

[DR.]

Have you ever heard of mistakes? Those things happen too, not sure if you knew that.

Ye normally when someone makes one they try to take the blame not what you just did trying to turn it on me or whatever that was. Being concerned about stuff should be a good thing otherwise what the point of this thread?

When this shield was added it wasn't entirely supposed to be added to any drop tables or anything so no idea what happened there.

Of course it'll be changed, do you actually think we'd just let a shield that is pretty much a house craftable shield (stats wise) stay as a legendary? No.
Oh and Bulwark won't be red.

I have been very tempted to make a hole post about this Orange and Red thing.. after doing the Legendary Item thread and seeing all it problems. 

If we look here at the Ni Wki from that the best for tr4 should be red then if hero stuff is better than that that can be red sounds fair. 

If you plan on making a better shield than bulwark and impev then yes it can be orange but till it dropped then it has the right to be red as it the best for tr4.

Look at Barbutte With Coif when Ornate Bascinet drop then it went orange with in a day i think. This is a better system vs whatever devs like is red.. This gives people a idea of what is truly best without looking at stats. I would think most people would like this way as then it more of a surprise when something drops as well.

[Xen]

First quote, that was sarcasm

That shield is to be changed, I'm pretty sure it was added by mistake when the Impervious and Bulwark was added since it appeared in one of our Beta tests MONTHS ago. I wasn't a Item/Stat developer when those shields were added. But please do expect a change in the near future.

If you plan on making a better shield than bulwark and impev then yes it can be orange but till it dropped then it has the right to be red as it the best for tr4.

The Bulwark and Impervious are made to be similar in stats, which they are. If you look at the House Craftables they follow the same method (I guess?) where one has higher HP and less Armour and the other has less HP and higher armour. Since the armour rating in a shield does actually matter quite a bit. So with that being said, wouldn't the impervious also be red? This argument kind of sounds like you want it to be red because you have one, I'm kidding of course (I have an Impervious and would like it to be red, but because of how the system works (and I'm the one what decides to be what lel).).

The colouring system is there to show that there's a better item than this and isn't found. (When it comes to a legendary item) So with that being said how do you know that there isn't a better shield than the two and isn't found yet?

The Barbutte With Coif thing was a case of it wasn't changed yet, it wasn't meant to be that way it was just forgotten about when we originally decided to do that change, we have a lot of items so missing things like that is quite easy.

Also, quote from me on Discord:


tl;dr The Pheonix is actually pretty on par with the Impervious/Bulwark when it comes down to the armour rating.

[Bobo]

Actually, it never mattered to me what colour the item is in the website. If one's planning to purchase a legendary item I'm pretty sure the decision to spend a whole lot of money is well thought off and the stats are well known, also in comparison to alternative choices. No reason to argue over red/orange/purple or yellow. Just relax m8s.