Sentry vs Sentinel

[DR.]

What's the point of Sentinel anymore?
Stats here http://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthread.php?tid=10544
Weapons stats http://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthread.php?tid=17198

Sentinel only thing it has over Sentry atm is 3 more Shield points? 
Add the fact that

• 2h's are just more useful in this game as a sniper.
  
• The Sentry 2h's have 2 modes.
  
• Sentry also got a buff in 1h? (+50) - Nerf no matter what.
  
• The best crafted Sentry 2h would be better to some people than the best legendary for senti just about.
  Sentry 58c 105 speed 121 long 50p (2nd mode) 52p 107 speed ||VS|| Sentinel 62c 107 speed 86 long 50p 
  
• ...
  

One suggestion I saw was to make Sentry slower with more Ironflesh - Then it's stepping on Rangers ground.
Another was to lower the Sentinel Shield to 1 and either give it higher athletics or lighter armour - idk sounds like it would make kiting way to easy.
One more up Senti Power strike - Not a bad idea?
 
My idea is to give all Sentinel 1h's a buff in the poke and also give them the same poke mode that the Sentry 2hs have just a 1h version. - Do the same with Aventurier 1h's.
So all Senti and Avent 1h's turn into daggers just about.

So with the changes I said people will look at Sentry vs Sentinel like longer slower 2h vs shorter faster 1h.

[Narvad]

In general, i agree with everything, although i don't think that 2h is more useful on sniper/warden than 1h for couple reasons. But for "melee combat" version of archer i guess it does really makes a big difference.

The "stab mode" is very situational, yet so powerful.
The Ironflesh & One-handed proficiency change seems pretty reasonable, athletic isn't; giving new armour is complicated.
More power strike than everyone has also not a quite good idea.

Not sure about the stab mode for onehanders. They are short enough, so animation would look weird. And usability would be even more situational than with estocs. Although buff to stab damage would be nice.
Aventuriers can't really use stabs in full power, due to slow movement(heavy armour). So it will be kinda useless.

Almost forgot to add that native stab animation of one-handers is quite complicated to perform efficiently(to hit the enemy), so if sentinel is going to be "dagger style", then probably animation change is required.

[DR.]

Also, i will add that I killed Odin today with the best crafted 2h for Sentry faster than you may think is posable with a crafted 2h.

Elegant Estoc is better than Jorm with mara just about in a 1 v 1 it seems lol. - No did not kill Odin in a 1 v 1 but you see my point.

[Narvad]

Also, i will add that I killed Odin today with the best crafted 2h for Sentry faster than you may think is posable with a crafted 2h.

Elegant Estoc is better than Jorm with mara just about in a 1 v 1 it seems lol. - No did not kill Odin in a 1 v 1 but you see my point.

Well, for me it's not a news that pierce damage a lot better than cut(especially against high-armoured bots, like bosses). And with good usability(new stab animations) it's a lot more efficient than Zwei trying to stab with Legacy, walking forth and back between hits.
By damage/speed is definitely better. But range is what makes difference. If you skilled enough to not die while poking Odin with short 2hander, then i guess it doesn't matter.

[Terath]

I completely agree. Sentinel and Sentry are very similar, but Sentry is still completely better than Sentinel. Expect some changes to these hero classes (and others) in coming updates.

I'll address some points you stated:

- I don't know why Sentry got +50 one handed skill. Noted.
- Sentry's swords have two modes, and Sentinels have one; I'd really love to overhaul Sentinel and give them cool animations and such but Warband is a fickle mistress and doesn't always agree with what we want to do. Without going into the nuts and bolts, no, we can't add more cool animations without removing some to make room. On a technical level, Warband sucks for modding. Giving Sentinel's weapons the same two handed poke as Sentry would (I feel at least) make Sentry's weapons lose some of their magic.
- I'm not sure whether Sentry's items need a nerf or Sentinel's items need a buff, or even either of those. The point of two handed weapons is to: do more damage, have longer reach, and be slower than one handed weapons. Problem is, the estocs are the same speed as the Sentinel weapons (or somewhere close) and that leaves Sentinel in the dust when it comes to doing damage AND helping the team - because Sentry can slash as well as shoot. My two options are to either nerf the Estocs speed, which is one of their only good qualities as their damage and reach compared to commando two handed weapons is really quite lacking when you compare them, or to buff the Sentinel's weapon speed, which would make them faster than Legionnaire and Adventurier, creating a brand new problem. I'm leaning for the former as it would create less problems, personally.
- I never thought about Adventuriers not being able to use stabs effectively because of their armor. That's a really good point, and I'll look into it.
- I'll look in to stat changes for both classes and see what can be ironed out. 

This ended up being way longer than I had either hoped or planned so I hope it helps calm some of your worries. The introduction of these new hero classes brought both a lot of good things and a lot of bad things to the table, and we're still working on the bad things. Thanks!

[DR.]

Well what about a change in % in the stats for Sentry 2h's so less cut more poke
eg with the Elegant Estoc

old
Sentry 58c 105 speed 121 long 50p (2nd mode) 52p 107 speed
new
Sentry 52c 107 speed 121 long 52p (2nd mode) 54p 108 speed

That way you get Sentry purely just for the poke rather than a 50/50 in my mind of cut and poke.



And when I say this you also do changes to senti also to make them as diverse as possable.

[Elmo]

Maybe buff Sentinel to 10 athletics? Making it the quickest archer hero overall? *Cough Kiting hero*

[TerrorBite]

or maybe give sentinel some nice short, low dmg, fast knockdown (low weight crush through?) maces, more for use in escaping combat easily or taking on 1 weaker bot, opposed to sentry having much more dmg but slower, being harder to disengage from combat with.

[DR.]

or maybe give sentinel some nice short, low dmg, fast knockdown (low weight crush through?) maces, more for use in escaping combat easily or taking on 1 weaker bot, opposed to sentry having much more dmg but slower, being harder to disengage from combat with.

Its already got 6 or 7 1hs to its name adding more would not fix the problem.

[Leandero]

What we could do is give the Sentinel a bit more shield skill, for example 7 and more Athlethics so you can pick up a shield and go into close range combat more safely. The idea behind that is to be able to quickly go into melee combat and retreat when needed. In this way you make the Sentry the 2h user with more reach and the Sentinel the 1h user with some protection in the form of a shield. I would love to be able to spawn with a good shield on the Sentinel but I am 100% sure that idea would be shot down because of balance reasons... An Impervious or Swadian Resil for example (And yes, I do know the Ranger has 6 shielding but in general you don't barge into melee combat with the Ranger like you do with the Sentinel).