Return Mangler and Blessed Penetrator

[Jalau]

I will join your ultimatum. Oh wait... I already left because the mod is dead and the game design changes are so unpredictable that it ruins the mod for me. You can't constantly change everything around if you plan on having a stable and working economy. Remember when imperial and defender items where craftables? The patch back then gave the owners of these crafted items a huge amount of value because it changed them into legendaries. How stupid is that? You can't just change an already crafted item into a legendary one. It is annoying as hell. Same for the tiger scale and efs change and the many valsgarde changes. Same as the many other changes that have been made to existing items. That is not how a rpg is supposed to handle items. Rule number one when it comes to rpg items: Only nerf or buff them if they are ridiculously unbalanced and if you wish to add a new legendary, rename the old one, change its texture and add a new item with the old texture. Make up your mind dev team and think before creating items that are shifted around for years. This mod is supposed to take very long to "complete" and thus you need to give the players an item structure that they can trust in. How should you build your class and aquire equipment if you are changing it constantly? Stop changing items like this or make the progression faster to create a good game.

Elder Scrolls Online seems to be doing alright...

To rephrase - I am a person that actually reads the patch notes.  I know that just about every successful RPG does have stat and balance changes over time: ESO, LoL, Everquest, and Overwatch to name a few without getting into the plethora of Korean MMOs, niche MMOs, stupid multiplayer flash games, etc.  The idea that an RPG that changes stats cannot be successful is ridiculous.  Your opinion does not change that.

I have played many mmos. Wow, Neverwinter, Tera and many more. I know they adjust items but what I meant is ridiculously adjusting items. Such as nerfing things to the ground or turning them into completely different items. Sometimes a nerf is required but if so please offer an exchange. Take a look at hearthstone. If a card is changed you can uncraft it and get the complete crafting cost back. But regarding this game: Changing an item in WoW does not matter that much. A few levels later you will get rid of it anyway because it will be too bad for your character. But in this mod it is all about getting the best gear. And the best gear does not adjust to your level. Reaching the point of end game in this mod is very easy and at that point you just try to improve your gear which takes ages. And in that scenario it is just annoying to have your gear changed. Because you spend a ton of hours on getting that very item and the poof, you just wasted 100 hours on a nerfed or useless item. I don't want to critize item changes in general but I want to critize the big item changes in a mod like this. I really like the admin team and I enjoyed playing this mod. I hope that bannerlord 2 will alloe you to completely change the system behind this mod because right now there are so many things wrong with it. Most significantly the many changes that ruin many player's lives and the locked economy which causes the market being empty when it comes to legendary items. No one is selling them because why should he? Unless there is a better item available there is almost no reason for mist high end players to sell or trade valuable items.

[Winter]

I don't want to critize item changes in general but I want to critize the big item changes in a mod like this. I really like the admin team and I enjoyed playing this mod. I hope that bannerlord 2 will alloe you to completely change the system behind this mod because right now there are so many things wrong with it. Most significantly the many changes that ruin many player's lives and the locked economy which causes the market being empty when it comes to legendary items. No one is selling them because why should he? Unless there is a better item available there is almost no reason for mist high end players to sell or trade valuable items.

It is unfortunate that this has come up right at the end of this thread's lifetime, but I do agree with you and think this is a necessary topic.  I personally dreaded the release of 1.5.0 and, in extension, all of the other drastic changes to players' items.  I did not enjoy it, nor did I enjoy all of the negative reactions.  However, the Developer Team has switched hands and direction enough times for there to be a need to redo certain items to better fit the new idea for what the mod should become.  This is not unexpected in a mod with such a long lifetime ran completely on donations for server fees and free-working volunteers.  The Developer Team did their best to accommodate any players that sent in messages asking for an item to be swapped to another because of class locks or other unfortunate effects, but at some point the lines must be drawn.  It is my hope that any future iteration of NordInvasion will have a much stronger base structure and a consistent central idea for progression to avoid issues like this.

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In response to OP:

Straight to the point: the Mangler nerf will not be undone.  I have provided testing data to show that it is still the highest damage pike against the strongest Nords and performs about equally as well against lesser armored Nords.  The fact that it was OP before does not mean it has to stay OP now.  Other items of completely different types also having 55p is irrelevant - the speed bonus and weapon animation calculations make these items have completely different usability and DPS.

Again, more testing data:
Odin Series:
Mangler 1(old Mangler side swing): 43 hits, 0:45 minutes
Mangler 2 (current side swing): 59 hits, 0:58 minutes
Mangler 3 (current overhand swing): 94 hits, 1:34 minutes
Naval Glaive (side swing): 83 hits, 1:18 minutes
Naval Glaive 2 (overhand swing): 153 hits, 2:46 minutes
Jormungandr: 106 hits, 2:07 minutes
Pike of Kings 1 (overhand stab): 83 hits, 1:34 minutes
Pike of Kings 2 (side swing): 75 hits, 1:13 minutes
Pike of Kings 3 (overhand swing): 112 hits, 1:58 minutes

Prince Series:
Naval Glaive (side swing): 16 hits, 0:16 minutes
Naval Glaive (overhand swing): 31 hits, 0:30 minutes
Mangler 1 (old Mangler side swing): 16 hits, 0: 15 minutes
Mangler 2 (overhand swing): 17, 0:18 minutes

Ultimatums are a horrible way to get what you want.  Even if you are in a position of power in which you can leverage another person into doing your will, it is dishonorable.  In this case, thankfully, you are not in a position of power.  I do not want you to leave the mod, but I will not let a group of players demand that their items remain overpowered with threats of leaving if they do not get their way.

as well as the transformation of Grinded helm (I do not exactly remember the name "60 armor on t3 inf") in Grifon bascinet. because at that time I was not. but except that it was complete nonsense. so also some players knew about the fact that the items will be changed. so for example Grinded heml massively bought at auction. it was done by those who learned about the changes before they were released.

This is tripe and you should be utterly ashamed of yourself for peddling misinformation like this.  Here is a screenshot of the Auction Hall records for Grinder Helmets leading up to the day of 1.5.0, where the Grinder Helmet became the Griffon Bascinet:


Here is a screenshot of the Auction Hall records for the month following that patch:


In regards to the Blessed Penetrator:
Further testing has been done with it and several other crossbows and their upgrades while trying to map out a proper path for them.  In the next patch, the Blessed Penetrator will receive a modest buff of +2spd, +2 missile speed, and +5p.  There will be no refund issued for anyone unhappy with this change.

This is the end of this discussion.  If this is what makes you and whatever friends follow you leave the mod, so be it.  I wish you the best of luck in whatever you choose to do next,
Winter