Biddding for Upgrades // Item, Gold, Mats Sink

[DR.]

On my Pc now so given some player's confusion on how this could work Ill try to show an example of what I think may happen. 

I would rather It be 2-3 items In round and a round lasts for a week or 4-6 items 2 weeks. Like I said In the post above the problem is manpower. Think doing 10-15 per month would be best unless the system can be automated. 

Going from the July round we got 15 items. Any ETA on the next round btw?

Attacker

Level 30
» Battle Hardened Vigilance
» Battle Honed Pride
» Blessed Ironsong
» Cursed Dead Shot
» Cursed Ragnar's Wrath
» Cursed Rupturers

Level 28
» Cursed Jormungandr

Level 25
» Battle Honed Dragon Axe
» Battle Honed Dragon Spear
» Battle Honed Severance (Legionnaire)
» Cursed Dragon Sword

Defender

Level 30
» Battle Hardened White Dragon Helmet
» Blessed Gilded Bear Armour

Level 28
» Cursed Gothic Gauntlets
» Cursed Leviathan's Treads

So how many got crafted out of that? 

I can see 2 things got crafted for sure.
1 x Severance 
1 x Vigilance

As a guess and example, I'll say more got crafted without posting.  
1 x Leviathan's Treads
2 x Rupturers
2 x Dragon Axe

What does this info tell us? 

(Most of the things on that list (10/15) 
Well, anything that was not even crafted would be 100% cheaper. If the demand Is so low none crafted It chances are the price to win the bid would be 50-75% off. Hell, It could be even less than that for somethings.

(Leviathan's Treads, Vigilance, Severance) 
Anything that got crafted once could still be cheaper than atm. If you have no opposition you may not need to pay the full amount that you did. 

(Rupturers, Dragon Axe)
Things that are made more than once well It becomes a bidding war. My suggestion gives you more ways to craft/bid on the upgrade you want as compensation I guess however this by Itself Is a good thing on Its own. 

"The market will regulate itself."

Spoiler

Just kidding! I would just get a group of people together and collude for highest upgrade-to-cost ratio.

I'm quoting this here as It seems relevant. Buying all of 1 Item with a few friends already happens with Ni however you cant stop more from getting looted tho. 


Items that the community finds are plentiful will be used In the bids. Stuff that was deemed unsellable will have a minimum value to stop the deflation. That craftable you can't sell to anyone Is worth more In this system. The "shitty" Dragon Spear you just looted Is now worth more to this system than the market. Given time Items will be self regulating. If we as a community find we have too much of something we put It in this upgrade system. As a side effect, It will make the Items rarer putting up the price slowly. For the more wanted items well they don't get used In the system so as a side effect it will become less rare given more drop.

[Malong]

I will point you to this: https://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthrea...#pid317547
Then you will post "but devs has changed there mindz befour!" (typos, incorrect homonym usage, bad grammar are intended)
Then I will post "Sure, but do you see this getting implemented for something that delivers almost no value?"

What does this info tell us? 

It tells us the "good" items have been upgraded, and people are on their secondary, tertiary, etc upgrades to round out their non-primary characters. This is expected; we're on the fifth (at least?) revolution of upgrade cycles.

"The market will regulate itself."

Spoiler

Just kidding! I would just get a group of people together and collude for highest upgrade-to-cost ratio.

I'm quoting this here as It seems relevant. Buying all of 1 Item with a few friends already happens with Ni however you cant stop more from getting looted tho. 

Items that the community finds are plentiful will be used In the bids. Stuff that was deemed unsellable will have a minimum value to stop the deflation. That craftable you can't sell to anyone Is worth more In this system. The "shitty" Dragon Spear you just looted Is now worth more to this system than the market. Given time Items will be self regulating. If we as a community find we have too much of something we put It in this upgrade system. As a side effect, It will make the Items rarer putting up the price slowly. For the more wanted items well they don't get used In the system so as a side effect it will become less rare given more drop.

It's not relevant. This type of collusion doesn't involve cornering the market. We would just not compete with each other. It could be an interesting exercise in game theory, but the "ideal" situation requires everyone being competitive and not cooperative.

And even if you could agree upon redemption prices of items for this auction, simply having fewer instances of "shitty Dragon Spear[s]" doesn't make them more valuable, i.e. its "price" is driven by demand. It's not best-in-slot and the mod is in the phase where only best-in-slot items are desired.

[DR.]

On a phone so I'll add in the quotes later if needed.

1. No. I would say that post is not entirely relevant to this one. That one is implying more ways to get upgrades when mine is new way to do it. Also this idea over rights the old way. Either way I posted this and It does not hurt anyone.

2. Price is driven by demand so if the system values the dragon spear higher than the current market value... It will go up because people will want it maybe not to use but to bid with.

[Bobo]

I'm sorry to say I think I don't comprehend how this would work. I want an upgrade so I say "ok, I pay 2m" and then Malong comes and says "no way man! I will pay 3m" and he gets the upgrade? And he is the only one who gets it 'cause he offered the highest price? Or I can get it too, if I pay 3m? What's the use of mats then (or you only need gold)?

PS. ofc in real life Malong would say "You have clearly misled yourself in your expectation to achieve the upgrade at such a discounted price since you failed to apply a proper amount of logical reasoning and simultaneously displayed a lack of basic knowledge of human nature not to anticipate one more experienced to bid more balanced amount that statistically ensures a 72% more chance of succcess". I just gave the short version above.

[DR.]

I'm sorry to say I think I don't comprehend how this would work. I want an upgrade so I say "ok, I pay 2m" and then Malong comes and says "no way man! I will pay 3m" and he gets the upgrade? And he is the only one who gets it 'cause he offered the highest price?

Yes, that's how auctions work.  

Or I can get it too, if I pay 3m? 

No.

What's the use of mats then (or you only need gold)?

Going back to the main request I outline how the bids would worth. An example would be 1m gold + 1 mill mats + 2 mill In items Is the same value as 4m gold or 4m mats or 4m in Items. 

Everything or Anything If the devs don't want to add items for some reason would have a minimum value to it.

[Fendi]

The reason why they don't want to add minimum value to items is that its a Woody level idea.

In all seriousness, if you control mat price it's dumb - this is a part of what getting upgrades which makes it hard, i.e wolfs and HC.

Please stop posting useless suggestions to better your own shop because you want to upgrade certain items. Devs at what point is Woody's non-sensical suggestion posting counted as post spamming, shouldn't they and he be removed like the bots? Asking for a friend.

[DR.]

The reason why they don't want to add minimum value to items is that its a Woody level idea.

Let me remind you we had a minimum value on mats to even items. I'm not going post searching just for you but It got removed because new people were selling stuff without knowing the market price of it. You could sell stuff like Dragon Spear for less than 100k and people really did it. 

Given the way, my minimum value works It's very unlikely this would happen as you need to have a basic understanding of the game and In turn the market to want/buy upgrades. 


To say minimum value is a bad idea is like saying minimum wage is a bad idea. 

Please stop posting useless suggestions to better your own shop because you want to upgrade certain items. Devs at what point is Woody's non-sensical suggestion posting counted as post spamming, shouldn't they and he be removed like the bots? Asking for a friend.

This has nothing to do with my wealth. If I had no gear I would still be for this. To claim I only want this idea to better my own shop Is an unfounded clam you can push on me for saying anything. 

My question to you is with this change am I making wealth or losing it? The answer Is not as easy as yes or no as If I make wealth from this change so do others... The same happens If It was the other way...

Come at me with good arguments, not this.

[Malong]

1. No. I would say that post is not entirely relevant to this one. That one is implying more ways to get upgrades when mine is new way to do it. Also this idea over rights the old way. Either way I posted this and It does not hurt anyone.

2. Price is driven by demand so if the system values the dragon spear higher than the current market value... It will go up because people will want it maybe not to use but to bid with.

1. If there is no interest in additional methods, there probably isn't interest in a replacement method.
2. If price is set by "the system," then price is driven by "the system" and not demand. Also this.

PS. ofc in real life Malong would say "You have clearly misled yourself in your expectation to achieve the upgrade at such a discounted price since you failed to apply a proper amount of logical reasoning and simultaneously displayed a lack of basic knowledge of human nature not to anticipate one more experienced to bid more balanced amount that statistically ensures a 72% more chance of succcess". I just gave the short version above.

That's too many consecutive words without expletives and/or racial slurs.

[DR.]

1. No. I would say that post is not entirely relevant to this one. That one is implying more ways to get upgrades when mine is new way to do it. Also this idea over rights the old way. Either way I posted this and It does not hurt anyone.

2. Price is driven by demand so if the system values the dragon spear higher than the current market value... It will go up because people will want it maybe not to use but to bid with.

1. If there is no interest in additional methods, there probably isn't interest in a replacement method.
2. If price is set by "the system," then price is driven by "the system" and not demand. Also this.

1. "...Probably..." What? If you don't try how do you know...? It takes very little effort to post this idea for an outcome that would be a big update If It happened. 

Do I think It will happen? Hmm, probably not at this point yet I still post this. I'm not sure what possible code wise and It's not like the devs are super transparent on a subject like this. They have had minimum values on all things but changes it because of an outlier problem to the best of my knowledge. They have change the cost of upgrades when they were more active so It's not like they are fully against changing how you get upgrades either.   

Its a new Idea so how do I know what other people think and more importantly what the devs think. We can guess what people may think but that's It Its a guess. 


Why do I even need to say this?


2. What are you on about? Also quoting something from almost 4 years ago. Nice. Someone must be pretty desperate to be digging that hard.

[Bobo]

(...)

PS. ofc in real life Malong would say "You have clearly misled yourself in your expectation to achieve the upgrade at such a discounted price since you failed to apply a proper amount of logical reasoning and simultaneously displayed a lack of basic knowledge of human nature not to anticipate one more experienced to bid more balanced amount that statistically ensures a 72% more chance of succcess". I just gave the short version above.

That's too many consecutive words without expletives and/or racial slurs.

Ah, indeed, I forgot them expletives in fact. Apologies. The slurs however I didn't learn yet. Will try better next time