POLL - Leeching is still leeching, even if you are not technically "AFK"

[Chaos Laicosin]

Total kills are not an indicator of activity as some people seem to be suggesting here. I've been in games where a player is trying their best and show great skill but their gear and/or ping just doesn't allow them to get many kills. They're still trying, though, and I like seeing that.

What I find demoralizing is when someone is standing in a corner doing absolutely nothing until a boss is on screen, often times either not bringing support or bringing the absolute bear minimum of support to get the E/M next to their name. These players seem to be doing their level best to not support the team in any way and they should be booted. If they don't want to be present and play with the team then they can go solo kite if they want loot.

Maybe add in an automated server message saying something like "Playername has not contributed for 60/120/180 seconds" to try to shame them into doing something?

[Spirit]

Me with 200-300 ping in all games

If I'm on top of the score board I'm either a god or the team is shit

Joking aside coming back to this game after not touching it for 5 years I've come to find really well equipped players don't have the average game sense that the older players had? I'll see a person bring in the best gear possible and it looks like they can't even kite well etc

Makes perfect sense with "gear inflation" but I think as this game has gotten easier and easier with better gear people don't need to try as much and improve at the core game


That's why it's probably more prevalent is my observation people have no incentive to even try when a half asleep rag runs will win anyway at this point

Hello DR,

     I am probably one of those you see who don't know how to kite/range well yet.  I have normally played infantry and recently got some lucky drops so I made a MP/Lego to learn how to kite... still a long way to go.

     I also agree with this statement..."That's why it's probably more prevalent is my observation people have no incentive to even try when a half asleep rag runs will win anyway at this point"

     I am hoping that the dev team can address this balance issue to still make the game challenging to the senior players, but not to the extent that new players are excluded. (thinks of games where players are excluded based on gear or achievements).

Thank you for your input,

Spirit

[Berkay]

The only way to solve this problem is based on kill rewarding system, not mentioning changing loot system for leeching. So for example kiting is quite rewarding in terms of incoming gold from bots which is around i would say 15-20k per run in ragnarok. However as you folks know that more players mean less gold from bots. Instead of making phoenix feathers, relics etc. droppable from bots which makes insane amount of gold inflation just go for let's say 5-6 times more gold you'll get for each kill. I'm not asking for more reward the thing is psychologically I would be more eager to get kills. However if it is not the case I'll vote for "Yes.. I am ok with it.". Because changing gameplay behaviour of players is whole different case. in my opinion if more rules will be added just for this leeching thing just nope.

[Jean Badou]

Q.  What examples of leeching have I observed?
A.  Here is  a list of things I have observed...
3.  Only killing bots on occasion so that you are not on the bottom of the kill count list, but never ever actually helping to take out the ranged bots where there is a chance you might get killed and miss a loot chance.

If this is considered as leeching, I must be a professional leecher then, as I rarely ever use my ranged weapons to kill ranged nords every single occasion I get (on pikeman classes). Here are some reasons that make sense to me :

1. Your team could have way more than enough ranged players to do it, and there's no use in getting a few shots on nords that are getting shot by a dozen of players already.
2. Some maps don't have enough peeking spots depending on the layout/cading area, peeking in that case isn't only going to risk your own life, but also your teammates, which is even worse in my opinion.
3. What about nords that are needed for quests you completed and unavailable ? Only talking about ranged nords that pose no threat to player defenses here. Killing them would result in stealing a valuable kill someone in your team might need to get a hefty reward. I usually don't do that if I already have all the kills for nords such as siege masters or einherjar snipers. I also try not to kill bosses when I don't need them.
4. In years of playing this mod, I've never noticed this was a problem and I believe this mod should be more about chilling than tracking every single player who's leeching.

Also, I doubt making kills more rewarding will make it better for newer players who don't have the gear to get those kills.

[DR.]

Me with 200-300 ping in all games

If I'm on top of the score board I'm either a god or the team is shit

Joking aside coming back to this game after not touching it for 5 years I've come to find really well equipped players don't have the average game sense that the older players had? I'll see a person bring in the best gear possible and it looks like they can't even kite well etc

Makes perfect sense with "gear inflation" but I think as this game has gotten easier and easier with better gear people don't need to try as much and improve at the core game


That's why it's probably more prevalent is my observation people have no incentive to even try when a half asleep rag runs will win anyway at this point

Hello DR,

     I am probably one of those you see who don't know how to kite/range well yet.  I have normally played infantry and recently got some lucky drops so I made a MP/Lego to learn how to kite... still a long way to go.

     I also agree with this statement..."That's why it's probably more prevalent is my observation people have no incentive to even try when a half asleep rag runs will win anyway at this point"

     I am hoping that the dev team can address this balance issue to still make the game challenging to the senior players, but not to the extent that new players are excluded. (thinks of games where players are excluded based on gear or achievements).

Thank you for your input,

Spirit

Kiting is one skill set in this game of many you are a pretty good shielder as you are active and push out and go into go safe positions. Hence this is game sense a lot of people don't have in this cade no brain needed meta at this point 

Hottest take I could say is I have no idea why rg got 12 shielding because if I can shield rag with 8 with mutable shields it seems like RG even more so then before incentivizes doing the bare minimum 

Then again I could be out of touch I have the best gear to do so even then idk

More on topic tho don't forget we are in weird times were rag runs happen every day... For so long was basically hard in public runs and rag runs were basically reserved for events because you needed coordination or on rare occasions publicly 

I don't think it should be that extreme again but ye lots of room to make this game more engaging rather than people clocking in for loot like it's their job.. This is a game 1st and foremost if you aren't here for gameplay and only here for game results being loot I think that's pretty telling we have a problem

[Spirit]

Hello Jean,

If you are performing your role as appropriate for the situation and your abilities, then this does not apply to you.

I am looking for a space to request map improvements for peeking spots and stuff. The space I see is for bug/glitch. Perhaps we can have players start putting improvement requests there.

https://forum.nordinvasion.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=92

There is also this poll thread from Midren where he did a map test and requested participation and feedback from the community. Perhaps some suggestions/requests can be put there....

https://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthread.php?tid=80677

Nords needed for quests are needed by everyone doing the quests. I have seen occasions when someone is close to completing a quest and is short certain bots then they ask the team to allow them to kill those bots. Perfectly acceptable. But to choose not to kill any bots because you don't need them but nobody has specifically asked for them is a choice. Now if there are not enough peeking spots and you don't want to double peek, understandable. But if there are peeking spots available, nobody has requested kills for specific bots, and the assumption is that others need the kills, then yes, that is an active choice not to participate.

I did not mean to imply in any way that kill count is a measure of activity. I only used that as an example because I have seen repeater-men with single digit or 0 kill count on wave 12. Since I have historically played an RG, I am fully aware that I and other RG will typically always be at the bottom of the kill count. I am also occasionally marked as AFK since I have not actually struck a bot with a weapon in some time. I do that because there are times when I dare not risk a swing when there is a chance that I may be killed and our defenses breached. If there are Jugghanders behind me, I don't worry as much as they will be able to absorb the impact. But when there is nothing but ranged in base I would rather be marked as AFK myself and not get gold/loot/exp than take a chance to swing, die, and then the ranged be overran.

The reason for starting this poll was to ascertain the community feeling on the subject. If the majority is perfectly chill and they don't care, then great. All is well in the world. But if most people would like something to be done about the most obvious offenders, then we Admins should "do our jobs" as mentioned before. Poll is open for three days. Should be plenty of time for feedback.

[Chaos Laicosin]

FYI, As Julianature found out in the "Friendliest Player" vote back in December:

Hello everyone,
Unfortunately, I have some rather sad news. It seems someone couldn’t resist and has abused the survey. Among the 74 participants, there are at least 15–20 people who haven’t been active in the forum for several years—some of them are very old usernames that had already stopped being active back when I was more active.
Unsurprisingly, these accounts have all voted for roughly the same individuals. I’ve sent private messages to these accounts, but I likely won’t receive a timely response (if any at all).
It’s genuinely disappointing that such a wonderful event is being shamelessly exploited like this.
With that in mind, we will be redoing the vote with stricter security measures. This time, like we’ve done for the Advent Calendar, we’ll use StrawPoll with an IP restriction. To prevent inactive forum users from voting under false identities, I ask that after completing the survey, you confirm your participation here in the forum with a comment. Anyone who does not leave a comment here will be manually removed from the survey by me.
I hope the individuals responsible will take a moment to reflect on their behavior. Enough words for now—let’s focus again on the positive and celebrate the achievements of some of our amazing community members.

Best regards,
Julian

So your poll may not be accurate to the sentiment of the active community.

[Spirit]

Me with 200-300 ping in all games

If I'm on top of the score board I'm either a god or the team is shit

Joking aside coming back to this game after not touching it for 5 years I've come to find really well equipped players don't have the average game sense that the older players had? I'll see a person bring in the best gear possible and it looks like they can't even kite well etc

Makes perfect sense with "gear inflation" but I think as this game has gotten easier and easier with better gear people don't need to try as much and improve at the core game


That's why it's probably more prevalent is my observation people have no incentive to even try when a half asleep rag runs will win anyway at this point

Hello DR,

     I am probably one of those you see who don't know how to kite/range well yet.  I have normally played infantry and recently got some lucky drops so I made a MP/Lego to learn how to kite... still a long way to go.

     I also agree with this statement..."That's why it's probably more prevalent is my observation people have no incentive to even try when a half asleep rag runs will win anyway at this point"

     I am hoping that the dev team can address this balance issue to still make the game challenging to the senior players, but not to the extent that new players are excluded. (thinks of games where players are excluded based on gear or achievements).

Thank you for your input,

Spirit

Kiting is one skill set in this game of many you are a pretty good shielder as you are active and push out and go into go safe positions. Hence this is game sense a lot of people don't have in this cade no brain needed meta at this point 

Hottest take I could say is I have no idea why rg got 12 shielding because if I can shield rag with 8 with mutable shields it seems like RG even more so then before incentivizes doing the bare minimum 

Then again I could be out of touch I have the best gear to do so even then idk

More on topic tho don't forget we are in weird times were rag runs happen every day... For so long was basically hard in public runs and rag runs were basically reserved for events because you needed coordination or on rare occasions publicly 

I don't think it should be that extreme again but ye lots of room to make this game more engaging rather than people clocking in for loot like it's their job.. This is a game 1st and foremost if you aren't here for gameplay and only here for game results being loot I think that's pretty telling we have a problem

I am also of the opinion that the extra shielding is not necessary.  I do like the extra athletics for speed to be able to get to cade spot and setup in time.

I recently purchased a SoK not because I needed it, but because I got tired of people constantly dropping their shields for me because I was bringing in an Aegis.  The Aegis was perfectly capable of shielding Rag runs without only occasionally needing to swap shields.  I also stopped looking for anvils as I am able to just get new shields on next respawn.....

Another change worth noting is what you have mentioned... "people clocking in for loot like it's their job."

It used to be that selling items for IRL currency was banned, but that is no longer the case.  When people can sell their loot for real cash, then THAT is the incentive to treat it is a job and not a game.

I admit that I have been tempted to pay IRL money for items, but ultimately did not do so.  Perhaps that is an issue that should also be addressed, but way outside the scope of this discussion.

Thank you again,

Spirit

[Krex]

FYI, As Julianature found out in the "Friendliest Player" vote back in December:

-snip-

So your poll may not be accurate to the sentiment of the active community.

I mean yeah, this vote was fairly one sided for people disliking leechers, and now it's suddenly not anymore? How curious.

[Spirit]

FYI, As Julianature found out in the "Friendliest Player" vote back in December:

Hello everyone,
Unfortunately, I have some rather sad news. It seems someone couldn’t resist and has abused the survey. Among the 74 participants, there are at least 15–20 people who haven’t been active in the forum for several years—some of them are very old usernames that had already stopped being active back when I was more active.
Unsurprisingly, these accounts have all voted for roughly the same individuals. I’ve sent private messages to these accounts, but I likely won’t receive a timely response (if any at all).
It’s genuinely disappointing that such a wonderful event is being shamelessly exploited like this.
With that in mind, we will be redoing the vote with stricter security measures. This time, like we’ve done for the Advent Calendar, we’ll use StrawPoll with an IP restriction. To prevent inactive forum users from voting under false identities, I ask that after completing the survey, you confirm your participation here in the forum with a comment. Anyone who does not leave a comment here will be manually removed from the survey by me.
I hope the individuals responsible will take a moment to reflect on their behavior. Enough words for now—let’s focus again on the positive and celebrate the achievements of some of our amazing community members.

Best regards,
Julian

So your poll may not be accurate to the sentiment of the active community.

Yes... i also fear that our players in CN or others who cannot read English will not be able to participate.  But this is the best forum I can find to at least get a feel for it.

by the way, I did like your idea about some sort of inactive player report being sent by the server periodically.  I am not a coder, so no sense if that is even possible, but have asked the question...

And yes, it is also possible that the survey could be hacked or the results skewed intentionally by some other actions.