Need for change

[Kwal]

I see the points Banks and Hande made...another option than countering the shieldwall tactic would be to make it more interesting, with larger spaces to camp in and more cade-like options (Homer's ballista hopefully one dat\y) and things to do to ward off bots so everybody can have a role/no-one has to get bored. But I suspect the developers are already working in such a direction.

[clickeverywhere]

People don't seem to realize that they can always be helpful, even at low levels or in places without much space for active roles (melee or ranged roles). If every player with nothing to do just grabbed a few medic boxes, they'd be useful again. But most players don't know what they're doing when they use a medic box, unfortunately. If every extra slasher grabbed 2 medic boxes, we would be able to get through rounds with continuous healing even without a restore ammo box like on Outskirts or Town. Optimally, commando slashers would hold a two-hander, spare shield, and two medic boxes. Low levels could just hold 3 medic boxes and a shield. It causes me great anguish to see a commando at the ammo restore healing while 3 squishies try to stab the Nords with weapons picked up from militia.

Anyway, end of rant. Sorry for going off topic but I had to get that off my chest.

[Kwal]

I know what you mean and I've played enough to share your frustration. But it's still kinda boring to have 5 guys trying to deploy medic boxes, 5 guys desperately trying to find some room to shoot and the rest shielding and slashing. And the whole team would still be better off if half of it left, no matter how hard everyone tries, because you only need a few of each role to optimize your chances and there are only so much ways to be helpful without standing in the way. I guess that would be my main critique. In some maps this is a bit different because you can split up the team and get decent amounts of Nords to both posts, but that is not the most efficient tactic and only a few maps provide that option.

I love the new Swadian Outskirts for instance because archers have more space to be useful, and pikemen can stab from the side with long pikes, finally giving those weapons a decent role too. So, to be constructive, I'd say keep the camping spots and the current playing style of NordInvasion which is already pretty cool, but in general there should be more useful roles for people to fulfill and more room for them to enact it. I do notice the mod is getting better at that though

And when there are more useful roles and better ways to fend off the Nords, the Nords should become more difficult again too.

[Hande]

There are many problems with bigger maps.

1. Most players don't like to wait so long to bots come to you.
2. Archers, the new horses.
3. To solve archer problem, we should make them slow as fuck.
4. Players don't like to be slow as archer.
5. When making bigger map(s), you need realy good idea so your map don't look empty.
6. Scener work gets bigger, can lower inspiration to continue making map.
7. Players whine, whine and whine if map don't have any "choke" points.
8. That means cade camp.
9. Other things that I don't remember now.

[MrGuarnere]

8a. Cade map means crashing servers
8b. Crashing servers means players moan
8c. See point 1

[Kwal]

I wasn't talking about bigger maps or more cades or removing choke points.

...Assuming that was in response to what I said anyway.

[Legend]

hmm ab it more end game motivation can also be higher levels, more stuff to craft( what eventually will come) improved teamplay (something like building ballistae together etc) and more\multiple waves.


Just my 5 cents.