Legionnaire ideas

[iBlue]

TL;DnR: Add more that he can do to make him more important in a game.

First a disclaimer:
I have not created a hero yet, have not gotten any concrete information about the legionnaire. Also  i do not belive that all of this hasn't been thought of before but if by chance you share my point of view and like the ideas please COMMENT and DISCUSS.
Please argument your point if negative and offer some improvements over my own ideas if you like the general direction:

First off, i belive a legionnaire should be a teamwork orientated hero. Just like the reputation of the romans for their discipline and unity in combat, a legionnaire should have some unique traits to JUSTIFY taking him over a slasher/archer or a shielder. For this purpose i would do the following (and perhaps even more)
(I would like a legionnaire to have as distinct role on hardmode and ragnarok just like the shielder shielder so that 1 would always be welcome if not a necessity.)

- Give a Legionnaire a special deployable shield/wall of 2 ranks (Heavy deployable cover and deployable cover) which would be very large and have no holes in it (As opposed to the barricade, so that a healer does not get shot by aimbot rangers). He could use it without the engineer proffesion allowing him to create artificial cover for healers and others alike in maps with poor natural enviroment (Outdoors). It would allow him to take medi-kits to the battlefield if necessary (at the cost of his other just as important weapons) because his deployable cover would not require a profession.

- I would give him a new "Tower shield" granting him cover over his whole body and more so that he can go out of the barricades and make the rangers attack him in melee while surviving all the arrows they throw at him. It would also allow him to shield a friendly from ranged damage if that friendly had something to do in the line of fire. The shield would obviously be poor at shielding but could take quite a few arrows itself. I do not know how this could be achived but maybe poor health and high resistance or vice versa.

optional and not really important:
-I'd give him unique lightweight armor and weapons/ shields to make the character faster at the cost of a little bit of armor allowing the player to opt for speed or armor. (This would punish him against crushtrough if i am not mistaken)

- I would give him THE best craftable head armor in the game so that he can survive a little bit more with a black bar instead of dying instantly against a handful of lucky rangers that hit the legs and head at the same time or the head directly when he slashes at another ranged enemy.

I would also do something with the throwables increasing how many he can hold by 50 or even 100% compared to the javeliner in one batch (So that he can carry a shield, a onehanded weapon and ~30 throwables from the start - His damage and accuracy is lower anyhow) or as a 2nd option to create the throwing process much much faster so that he can throw his throwing weapon faster than an archer can reload but making the number of throwables lower to balance for the speed of which he's throwing them at. It's something i always hated in warband.. Javelins should be a counter to archers but infact it's noticeably slower to throw a javelin than shoot an arrow making it sometimes hard to even throw the weapon at range, forcing you to go into melee.

These are just some of my ideas and i'll probably have more since this class really got my interest. Comment and share yours.  ;D
I'm a newbie so any sort of "enlightenment" would be appreciated (if i made a mistake or underestimated legionnaire's value)

[Barristan]

Nice brainstorming:

I like the idea of new deployable items. Will look at that.

A tower shield would be a good idea too. It would be difficult to fit such a shield into the progression, as you have described it, since there are so many new ones and a big one with low resistance would be objectively worse than most of the new ones. Further, such a shield would not be very good for fighting in the high difficulties, especially hunting ranged units as the shield would be regularly penetrated. I do however want to give them a tower shield and have some ideas about what to do with them.

Lightweight armour is possible but that is what the pikeman has, the legionnaire was designed to be more of a tank. A difference when compared to commandoes is possible but I am not sure why someone would not just go for the pikeman if they wanted speed.

Not sure I see a good case for giving the legionnaire the best head armour in the game.

I also don't see a good reason to give them such a huge amount of ammo. The legionnaire is supposed to be tied to the unit and therefor tied to supplies. Super fast throwing also seems a bit much. The legionnaire is supposed to throw a few volleys of pilum into the enemy, not to spam them like a porcupine. The idea is also that they should be inaccurate and target groups, they are troops to meet the mass of enemy not to snipe and kite.

[iBlue]

I also don't see a good reason to give them such a huge amount of ammo. The legionnaire is supposed to be tied to the unit and therefor tied to supplies.

Super fast throwing also seems a bit much. The legionnaire is supposed to throw a few volleys of pilum into the enemy, not to spam them like a porcupine. The idea is also that they should be inaccurate and target groups, they are troops to meet the mass of enemy not to snipe and kite.

i agree with the underlined, it was just an idea but i do belive having a fast pilum/javelin with low ammo would be beneficial. That way you could kill enemy ranged at range aswell. Perhaps only 4 or so per a pack and very good damage compared to the rest of his weapons? Would prevent them from being spammed somewhat and still allow to do that damage at ranged without being totally destroyed by archers.
(That way you bring max 12 + shield if you go outside the cades or 16 if you stay inside (Only 8 with a one handed weapon).
Pretty tied to the resupply in my opinion.

As for the head: I do not know how powerful the best helmet in the game is against ranger headshots unfortunately but instead of giving them the best maybe giving them a cost effective 2nd best with only 1 or 2 less head armor? or something along those lines just to protect their head better? If someone is going to go out of the barricades to deal with the rangers he ought to have a good shield and a head armor slot just for the small chance that it would save you.

I understand the armor part. mostly i was thinking more along the lines of a unique set that would make them easier to be recognised. Shielders have shields and aegis. Zwei's got those beast like swords and legion could have the tower shield so that's not that important. Maybe just a unique cost effective helmet like i said which is not overpowered but gives good protection for a moderate cost.

I've also just remembered something else i was thinking off.
Blunt one handed weapons. There's a very poor selection of those and none that would be good enough to justify their use. Perhaps giving some to the legion with moderate damage but good weight (more knockdowns) to deal with 2 or more melee enemies that would be mixed up with remaining rangers. would be good if their tower shield is going to be worse than an sks or even if it's going to be equal to it since hardmode or ragnarok melee is quite powerful. Slashing at them with a sword which takes more than 5 slashes to kill is pretty bad when enemy archers can shoot you. I'm pretty sure you've thought about this tho or even implemented it already or in the process of doing so.
Justification:
You go out of the barricades, 2 melee attack you and 10 archers shoot at you. You got a sword and one nord circles around you. With no nearby cover chances are you're dead. With blunt you could slow those melee enemies with knockbacks while moving back so that you always point your shield towards the archers.
This would arguably make them very powerful but who is going to solo hardmode or ragnarok in melee? Their lenght will not allow them to be used as slashing weapons either so it pretty much comes down to safer clean-up rather than overpowered wave-grinder which would make it the best class in the game.

[Winter]

Oh neat, people discussing my favourite class!  Alright, I purchased the Legionnaire hero class a few days ago and it has been nothing but endless fun since.  Although its use in slashing in a shield wall is very limited, as 1h weapons are typically shorter and easier to get friendly fire with, it can always switch to throwing in cases where the shield wall does not accommodate 1h slashing.  A counter to this is to pick up a 2h weapon from the ground, but 1h, shield, and 2 stacks of throwing seems to fit the class better.  It would also be a pain to switch 1h > 2h > throwing > 1h when fighting ranged.

The class is very useful for taking out the ranged enemies that do not run straight into the shield wall.  Throw at a large glob of archers, kill a few, then rush in with your 1h and shield and it is rather easy to decimate a cloud of pretty much anything Hard mode has to throw at you.  Compared to pikeman, this class has an easier time killing enemy ranged in melee combat because of increased armour, shields for when too many Nords attack you at once, and the ability to use a 1h weapon effectively.  It also has a good shielding skill, so if a shielder goes down a Legionnaire can quickly take his place with only one shield and still hold out until the end of the wave (usually).

The one issue I am finding with the class is its ability to be useful in Hard mode.  The throwing is not effective enough to justify not bringing a different class, the ranged Nords are a bit too powerful for their throwing, and 1h combat against multiple Einherjar Rangers is definitely not advised.  Shield and 1h combat against even one Einherjar Ranger does not end well for the Swadian the majority of the time either.  Shields break very quickly to Einherjar Rangers, and they have much longer reach than most 1h weapons.  Since all of the uses that makes this class so fun in Normal and Hard mode aren't quite viable in Ragnarok and it would be much more useful to the team to bring a different class, I would be very hesitant to try to bring my Legionnaire on a Ragnarok run.  A deployable cover would probably change this opinion, since Swadian ranged seem to be the ones that die the most in any good Ragnarok run and could use all the help they can get to kill those pesky Einherjar Rangers.  A throwable with a faster throwing rate could also work, as I am currently using Craftable Throwing Spears (faster throwing rate than even Twigs of Yggdrasil) and am still finding it difficult to kill Einherjar Rangers before getting my eyes skewered with barbed arrows with the limited accuracy and damage.  Throwing into a glob of Einherjar Rangers, as you can do in Hard and Normal to other Nord ranged, simply isn't an option unless you want to be made into a nice heap of flesh on the ground.

And special Legionnaire armour, yes!  I will be the most stylish Commando in Cyrodil Calradia.

[Murrow]

-I would give him THE best craftable head armor in the game so that he can survive a little bit more with a black bar instead of dying instantly against a handful of lucky rangers that hit the legs and head at the same time or the head directly when he slashes at another ranged enemy.

Rangers don't give a shit if you have a helmet. If you're moving and get HS you're dead. If you're standing still and get HS there's a chance you will get black barred. Even w/ the legendary helms (Fearsome/Valsgarde) they do little to actually protect you from a headshot. I find the only purpose of head gear atm is to diminish the damage from over head swings from the nords. (Usually only applies against 1-handers, if they're 2-handing and connect an overhead you're dead.

[Simpleton]

I agree that the class is really fun. I also agree that sometimes on hard/ragnarok there is a problem to find yourself a really useful role. I either find my self shielding and wish that i would have brought my Royal Guard instead or I try to slash with my Dragon Axe and when you hit it really makes damage but it is to short for this actually. Might have to get a longer sword for this char.

Throwing is slow and quite inaccurate as it is supposed too i guess but a good way to weaken the enemies before they reach the shieldwall.  A shield that cover a lot of the body would be good so you can go out and drag the last ranged nords in so the shielders don´t get killed while doing that, which is really devastating for the team.

[Herakles]

JUST A RANDOM THOUGHT.... shieldbash?

before you point me to countless threads requesting this, lets think, because Legionaries were trained to fight with shield as much as sword, and considering the set up most legionaries take ( 1h, shield, throwing, throwing) and the fact they have 8 shield skill, means if a shielder goes down or crashes at start of a wave it generally means a wipe for the team in hard or ragnarok unless its one of the easier rounds.

if possible this could be restricted only to the legionnaire due to this, it could have a 7 second cool down say, but due to fact that most legionnaires only have 1 shield when they jump in, or a shield not as powerful as royal/aegis etc etc it will help the survivability of the shield and ultimately the team.

Keeping the cooldown of it to somewhere between 5-10 seconds stop it from being spammed, and it gives one of them 'perks' that to me really would make it a great hero class.

or possibly make it only useable when equipped to a special shield for legionnaire only, and also have it so that it does as much damage as a kick, and only half the stun duration (if that is even possible? :S)

i understand the reasons why it has not been brought out thus far, and this is only an idea of mine of how to finally implement it into the game without it being Overpowered or abused.

[iBlue]

Quite simply i think it would just be a nightmare to code and make glitch/bug free. There are probably better things for the devs to focus on.

Hell if it would be possible i'd add in a Swadian battle standard, increasing exp and gold drops from enemies whose killer is in exp range of the deployable by 3, 5 or 6 depending on how many you'd have or increase barricade resistance by a certain amount, say 10/15/20% with max stacked 3 banners. It would basicaly have the house banner and an ornamented swadian banner next to it. Pretty sexy and would make events have an even better atmosphere. (Maybe this could be made purely as a cosmetic item and equippable in normal slots? This way a 2 skirmishers can bring over a banner for the fun on it and rearm their throwables after placing it?) Not neccessarily only legionnaire tho.

But those are bedtime stories and not likely to be implemented.
For the devs: Love the swadian resilience. Found it some short time after i posted the suggestions. Just the type of a shield i was looking for. Tempted to go legionnaire when i get the levels.

[Barristan]

JUST A RANDOM THOUGHT.... shieldbash?

It likes to crash servers. Best we leave sheildbash for further investigation.

[Swadius]

I also don't see a good reason to give them such a huge amount of ammo.

Maybe throwable weapons with low ammo, that has one handed proficiency then? All the throwing weapons right now have polearm proficiency when you switch them to melee so they could be slightly useful for pikemen when the need arose. Something like the throwing and heavy throwing axes would seem to me like it would use one handed proficiency rather than polearm though.