Changing the Commando's Hero Classes

[Maroon]

Just had a brainfart during a discussion about the Hero Classes for the Commando, so I thought I might as well post it here.
At the moment, the Commando effectively only has 2 hero classes, since no-one picks Legionnaire. While the Legionnaire could do with a little buff, it currently fills no particular role in the game, and is thus not often chosen. It's decent with throwing, but not enough to be any good at it in Hard or Ragnarok runs. It gets the highest one handed proficiency in the game, and some nice one handers, but one handed weapons don't really have a spot in NI as it is, aside from the occasional swing when you're shielding, which is not too often as a Legionnaire, or when you're gathering ranged bots.
Even if the Legionnaire would get buffed in what it does, that still doesn't give it a working role in NI.

So, as an alternative solution, I thought, why not merge the Zweihander and Legionnaire, and make it a weapon specialist kind of class? In return, the Royal Guard could be buffed a bit, or the increase in stats of the Zweihander and Legionnaire shouldn't be as high as the increases of the classes separately, to keep the classes balanced a bit.

So, in stats, here's a rough outline of my suggestion:

Current Hero Class stats

Zweihander Requires: 13 class points Gold: 750000 One handed: 10 Two handed: 40 Polearm: 30 Archery: 0 Crossbow: 65 Throwing: 40 Power draw: 0 Power throw: 1 Power strike: 2 Ironflesh: 0 Athletics: 1 Shield: 2

Legionnaire Requires: 13 class points Gold: 750000 One handed: 50 Two handed: 0 Polearm: 0 Archery: 0 Crossbow: 0 Throwing: 150 Power draw: 0 Power throw: 4 Power strike: 2 Ironflesh: 0 Athletics: 1 Shield: 2

Royal Guard Requires: 13 class points Gold: 750000 One handed: 10 Two handed: 0 Polearm: 30 Archery: 0 Crossbow: 65 Throwing: 40 Power draw: 0 Power throw: 1 Power strike: 2 Ironflesh: 1 Athletics: 1 Shield: 4

Suggested Hero Class stats

Zweihander Requires: 13 class points Gold: 750000 One handed: 10 25 Two handed: 40 Polearm: 30 Archery: 0 Crossbow: 65 Throwing: 40 150 Power draw: 0 Power throw: 1 4 Power strike: 2 Ironflesh: 0 Athletics: 1 2 Shield: 2

Legionnaire Requires: 13 class points Gold: 750000 One handed: 50 Two handed: 0 Polearm: 0 Archery: 0 Crossbow: 0 Throwing: 150 Power draw: 0 Power throw: 4 Power strike: 2 Ironflesh: 0 Athletics: 1 Shield: 2

Royal Guard Requires: 13 class points Gold: 750000 One handed: 10 30 Two handed: 0 Polearm: 30 Archery: 0 Crossbow: 65 Throwing: 40 Power draw: 0 Power throw: 1 Power strike: 2 Ironflesh: 1 2 Athletics: 1 Shield: 4

Aside from the increase of stats, the renewed Zweihander would get access to the items the Legionnaire can get, so the Marketplace throwables, CTS, and all the one handers, but the Royal Guard would get the highest One Handed increase, to emphasize its role of shielder. Furthermore, if needed, the new Zweihander could also gain 1 less Shield skill, but that would bring it below the hybrid Commando level.
So basically in the end, you have a weapon specialist with increased proficiency in one handed, two handed, and throwing, and a shielding/armor specialist with better one handed than the weapon specialist, better shielding, more Ironflesg and better armor available.

Thoughts?

[-Perception-]

Now go ahead and think of a third choice. 

[Winter]

Now go ahead and think of a third choice. 

Hoplites, bonus to shield and polearm skill!  Now to make 1h stabs not be totally worthless...

[-Perception-]

That actually sounds fun. 
A bit like a pikeman with shielding skill but without the throwing.

[Niezdara]

no-one picks Legionnaire. While the Legionnaire could do with a little buff, it currently fills no particular role in the game, and is thus not often chosen.

According to The great list of swadian heroes 25 out of 130 infantry heroes are Legionnaire. Quite a lot for "no-one". Especially when you look at other classes like Aventurier or Sentinel. Legionnaire role is ranged attack from behind barricades and emergency shielding.

[Tyrion.]

According to The great list of swadian heroes 25 out of 130 infantry heroes are Legionnaire. Quite a lot for "no-one".

Most likely there are so many Legionaries because it was so cheap in the beginning

[Drunken Monkey]

I have a character I chose the Legionnaire class with and I have to admitt that it is not as effective in Ragnarok. However, on hard and normal and expecially on cavalry servers it is very effective and fun to play. As a side note, I upgraded my commando to legionnaire a few weeks ago so I paid the whole price and not only the 100k (?) it has been reduced to for some time; and I think it has been worth it.

[Harlaus]

The same could be said for Aventuriers, Halberdiers, and Sentinels as well. Merging these classes is not a solution, it's probably not even necessary and would upset several people who are happy with their legionnaire as is. The primary reason the class feels under-represented, as with the other three mentioned above, is that it is a hybrid. In the majority of runs I assume people reference, the players probably have a solid distribution of classes and each member of each class can effectively contribute as is. The Commando+ players can all shield or slash well, the Sniper+/Sharpshooter+ players can shoot well, the pikemen can throw/poke/slash decently. With each one doing it's role well, the need for cross-class hybrids like the legionnaire is not needed. They are too generalized and lack the raw power that specialized classes contain, meaning that they will always lose out in a matter of efficiency, hence why many tend to shy away from them when attempting to do 10 minute Odin runs or whatever. The issue isn't the class itself, when the need for this kind of generalized skill set they embody arises, they are very useful, the issue is that kind of need is exceedingly rare in the majority of runs cited and the most effective response to that kind of lack of power in an area is to switch to a high damage specialist class on next spawn.

If you wanted them to be more represented then you would have to prevent people from switching characters mid-map, which isn't very enjoyable for anyone. So, legionnaire is fine as a class, it's just unneeded. Nothing would change if you merged classes, except people would complain "Zweihander throwing buff needed" instead of "Legionnaire fix needed". People would go to the new Zwei-hander class for its slashing capabilities, leaving throwing/ranged to pikeman and Sniper/Sharpshooters who excel there. For generalized needs, a pikeman is probably more effective anyways, since healing/toming is powerful enough that lower armor is not a real concern for a pikeman alternating between throwing and slashing.

[Maroon]

[quote author=Maroon link=topic=26462.msg178417#msg178417 date=1400086464]
no-one picks Legionnaire. While the Legionnaire could do with a little buff, it currently fills no particular role in the game, and is thus not often chosen.

According to The great list of swadian heroes 25 out of 130 infantry heroes are Legionnaire. Quite a lot for "no-one". Especially when you look at other classes like Aventurier or Sentinel. Legionnaire role is ranged attack from behind barricades and emergency shielding.
[/quote]
Like Tyrion said, if you take a look at that same topic you mentioned, you'll see that approximately 5 of those 25 were picked when it was no longer on a discount, while 105 people picked the other 2 classes. While no-one is a hyperbole, my point is that only a few people would pay 750k for the class.

You're probably right, Harlaus, that the Legionnaire is redundant, that's also part of my point in the OP. I don't think, however, that wouldn't be changed if the 2 classes were to merge. Legionnaire as it is fills a tiny, tiny niche in the game, so why not add that niche to a class like the Zweihander? The Zweihander would still be as efficient as the Legionnaire was in filling that niche, but it's no longer his single role. It's no longer as useful as a standard Commando at everything but that small area.
In fact, I think that having 3 choices for every main class is one too many, perhaps with the exception of the Pikeman. The Commando, Sniper and Sharpshooter can all be moved pretty effectively into 2 groups, which leaves a third option, which is more like, "Gee, we haven't covered one handed yet. Let's try that one out." I think the Sentinel and Ranger, for example, can be merged just as well as the Legionnaire and the Zweihander.
Perhaps it would be best for the new Zweihander to drop the throwing as a whole, as that also feels kind of redundant, but that might upset people who picked Legionnaire for the throwing specifically.

[Suns]

[quote author=-Perception- link=topic=26462.msg178419#msg178419 date=1400086694]
Now go ahead and think of a third choice. 

Hoplites, bonus to shield and polearm skill!  Now to make 1h stabs not be totally worthless...
[/quote]
Wise words from the great Winter!
Edit:Wouldn't like legion to go. But, adding a hoplite class would sound nice.