[Closed] I have question about bug use

[Black_Kitten*]

I have question about bug use)

1.  
 http://s015.radikal.ru/i330/1603/c8/a7acf565432a.jpg

on the first screenshot have bug use because bots not strike blows on wall  

2.
http://s019.radikal.ru/i644/1603/34/9019055f224a.jpg

in the 2 screenshot -- die shielder and place this wall. Wall Barricade have damage and bots strike wall and SHC as it usually happens. Question: this too bug uses ? and ban for player?
PS: sorry for my English

[Looter]

http://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthread.php?tid=50335
Looking at the outcome of this report and comparing it to the barricade placed in the way shown above, I would say that the method of barricading shown is glitching/'bug use' as bots don't target or destroy cades. I'm pretty sure none of the maps used in nordinvasion intend for there to be places where you can barricade and be invincible since bots can't reach you

[DrWhoCares]

The two posted screenshots are not bug abuse because they can, and WILL attack the cades. Killing them eventualky.

[Black_Kitten*]

In the two screenshots no bug? Good. Because players in server say me this is bug use, and refresh one's memory example ban Bartus

[Bobo]

Well, I'd say this is not a glitch, the cades are possible to be destroyed should bots attack them. It's an AI problem they try to reach players the shortest way possible with some marigin of looking for another way if they find an obstacle. The marigin seems to be somewhat too small for some spots on some maps so bots stop on map elements. To avoid confusion, it would probably be the best way to design maps to ensure the reasonable AI path always falls within algorithm marigin of calculating an alternative path when obstacle is met. Ofc it's easy to say but much more difficult to do.

In the first example even if there was no cade the bots wouldn't advance (if they do not get close enough to the cade to attack it = they don't move forward). IMHO one can't call a glitch taking position that is possible to reach by the bots only that they wouldn't move forward because of the map design. The cades are built in the position a shielder would take if here was one... Should we call such a situation a glitch that would simply mean if the bots don't follow you (because the AI is not smart enough), you have to come back to them and engage them should even that mean suicide. Makes no sense to me, but I'm very curious of what admins / devs would comment on this. But yeah, good example, Looter, Eagle said that was a glitch.

The second example looks like cading off to me which is obvious and often used if there's no shielder. But the cades are easily reachable by the bots and I see no reason they should not attack them.

[BlackSniper]

In screenshot 1 the bots won't attack the cade much at all since the player is too close to the bots and the cade is on the other side.
Of course, they hit it sometimes, but the amount of attacks on the cades will be 80% less or so.

For the second: The bots have less "surface" to attack the cade, and since a Wall has alot of hp, it will take much longer to destroy then placing it on the regular way.

In my opinion, this is a way to make the cade last much longer because both don't attack them too often due the placement from the cade and the player which is a glitch/bug.
Beside that, using this way also raise the chance of getting the bots "friendly".

[Looter]

So basically encourage abuse of the Ai because 'technically' they can attack the cade though they hardly ever do so since they are targeting the player not the cades, and by the time they do game is over. The same technicality could be applied to barricade stacking, yet that is banned.

Also:
"To avoid confusion, it would probably be the best way to design maps to ensure the reasonable AI path always falls within algorithm marigin of calculating an alternative path when obstacle is met. Ofc it's easy to say but much more difficult"

Yes, it is easy to say, and I don't think you understand what the Ai mesh does or how it is done, It can only guide them to the player in the shortest route. I can't make them take a more "reasonable" path if the players are abusing barricades. And I don't think that anyone's going to redesign all 37 of the maps for your "algorithm.." That worked until players decide to abuse cades

All I have left to say is this, quote from the ni rules section on Glitching:

"Bots have no wit or brain; they just charge at you at the nearest given opportunity and will only be stopped by a wall. Naturally, their lack of intelligence allows them to be abused in unimaginative ways. Glitching is the solution to a cheap victory. Players can just pick off bots like a trapshoot which isn't a challenge and not the purpose of this mod"
Compare this barricade method to the paragraph and see if it applies.

[DrWhoCares]

So basically encourage abuse of the Ai because 'technically' they can attack the cade though they hardly ever do so since they are targeting the player not the cades, and by the time they do game is over. The same technicality could be applied to barricade stacking, yet that is banned.

Also:
"To avoid confusion, it would probably be the best way to design maps to ensure the reasonable AI path always falls within algorithm marigin of calculating an alternative path when obstacle is met. Ofc it's easy to say but much more difficult"

Yes, it is easy to say, and I don't think you understand what the Ai mesh does or how it is done, It can only guide them to the player in the shortest route. I can't make them take a more "reasonable" path if the players are abusing barricades. And I don't think that anyone's going to redesign all 37 of the maps for your "algorithm.." That worked until players decide to abuse cades

All I have left to say is this, quote from the ni rules section on Glitching:

"Bots have no wit or brain; they just charge at you at the nearest given opportunity and will only be stopped by a wall. Naturally, their lack of intelligence allows them to be abused in unimaginative ways. Glitching is the solution to a cheap victory. Players can just pick off bots like a trapshoot which isn't a challenge and not the purpose of this mod"
Compare this barricade method to the paragraph and see if it applies.

On hard or rag, those bots would either kill you without hesitation or destroy the wall.

Higher difficulties brings smarter AI, which leads to them attacking the nearest attackable object, the wall.

[Looter]

So basically encourage abuse of the Ai because 'technically' they can attack tnhe cade though they hardly ever do so since they are targeting the player not the cades, and by the time they do game is over. The same technicality could be applied to barricade stacking, yet that is banned.

Also:
"To avoid confusion, it would probably be the best way to design maps to ensure the reasonable AI path always falls within algorithm marigin of calculating an alternative path when obstacle is met. Ofc it's easy to say but much more difficult"

Yes, it is easy to say, and I don't think you understand what the Ai mesh does or how it is done, It can only guide them to the player in the shortest route. I can't make them take a more "reasonable" path if the players are abusing barricades. And I don't think that anyone's going to redesign all 37 of the maps for your "algorithm.." That worked until players decide to abuse cades

All I have left to say is this, quote from the ni rules section on Glitching:

"Bots have no wit or brain; they just charge at you at the nearest given opportunity and will only be stopped by a wall. Naturally, their lack of intelligence allows them to be abused in unimaginative ways. Glitching is the solution to a cheap victory. Players can just pick off bots like a trapshoot which isn't a challenge and not the purpose of this mod"
Compare this barricade method to the paragraph and see if it applies.

On hard or rag, those bots would either kill you without hesitation or destroy the wall.

Higher difficulties brings smarter AI, which leads to them attacking the nearest attackable object, the wall.

No, just buffed stats, Ai are still as stupid regardless of difficulty. The mount and blade Ai intelligence is the same regardless of gamemode difficulty, they won't target the wall more if it's in hard or normal. And with what you just said, you implied that the Ai won't attack it more in normal than hard or rag, hence it being a glitch by your logic if proven true. So still an abuse of the Ai's intelligence

[Bobo]

I can see your point Looter but cades or shieldwall are always set in this position on this map. I've seen countless runs on this map and never have seen any other position for cade used by anyone. How can it be a glitch if one has put the cade in a location that is always used? One can expect bots will attack the cade as they always do... Most probably what is pictured happened only because there was just 1 bot, so he got stuck in his movement towards the player. In a 1 vs 1 situation you can even stand behind the tree or a rock or whatever, if a bot is on the other side and the distance is the same left/right he will not move...

But well, if such thing happens that bot/-s get stuck and they don't move forward even if they have a path to reach the players should they walk the obstacle around, what do you think the players should do to avoid being called glitchers? Move towards the cade to make bot/-s attack it? I'd be also thankful to see the admins team point of view on such situations.