Ding Dong, NI Is Dead

[Winter]

Most games have a "fun" ramp up of resources required for the top tier - see Champion 160 gear in ESO that is literally 10 times as expensive as the previous tier. As in it is exactly 10 times the materials to craft. People that don't feel it is necessary for the +2p or +1% armor simply don't buy it, and there is definitely no shortage of that in ESO. Don't even get me started on the grind in TERA.

As far as the no fun allowed goes, I am not sure if that is really the fault of the game so much as the way game communities work. There is always that one group of people that always wants things to be done in the most grindy/efficient way possible.

Examples

It happened in Warhammer: End Times - Vermintide where they farmed the easiest map over and over using easy grind spots and treasure locations, ESO with Old Orsinium's easy Rubedo Leather grind spot, AVA when teams formed regimented PvP rotations to get the maximum credit out of each "PvP" match, Warframe with Ceras XP, key, and Orokin Cell farming, and the list goes on.

People will always find the easiest/fastest spot for grinding and create rules that they expect others to follow on how to get resources the fastest. This isn't to say I agree with it, but I certainly don't think it is something we can blame on NI or even necessarily "fix." It is just a way some people prefer to play their games, just as you prefer to play your games a different way. If you want to play a different way, get a group of friends together and play that way. To clarify my point, I don't disagree with you. I think you are absolutely right, there is a "no fun allowed" aspect to it and it has been present since my redshirt days, and I have had very close real life friends stop playing because they just couldn't enjoy it. However, I don't think this is an issue unique to NI or even something that can really be changed about gear/grind based video games.

I can't really speak for the changes to kiting as I haven't experienced them.

I agree that the trading system could use work.

I agree that the end game gets repetitive, but that has been in part alleviated by certain individuals hosting special fun events in the past (see "Fluffy" events, Christmas and Halloween events, and one-class-only events).

I'm not sure about the super rich really controlling the market. I haven't seen much direct market manipulation. However, I don't see how this is much different from any game or even real life. The only way I can see of preventing this is developer interference, and I'm more of an advocate for free markets.

Do any video games really have a purpose other than to be a fun time sink? If you aren't having fun anymore, then by all means, do something else. Come back later on if you feel like it, don't come back later on if you don't feel like it. You are your own man.

As far as the mod being dead... well... perhaps to you, but there appear to be others that don't think so. I'm not sure saying the game is dead is the best way to go about voicing your concerns on it. I guess it goes back to the point of this thread. Do you want something to change, do you want to express frustration, is this a goodbye letter, or none of the above? What do you want to happen with this?


Edit: I'll go ahead and mention the part about no new content. What exactly does qualify as new content? New maps, bots, items, and classes/skills are about as much as I can see happening, and honestly how is that any less than what other games offer in content expansions? More storyline, perhaps? I'm honestly curious, as I also cannot think of any expansion that is not made up of those things in any other game. Dark Souls expansions are more maps, enemies, and lore (glorious lore), Warframe is generally more of the same with a greater focus on items and story/quests, ESO is more of the same, any paid DLC I can think of is just more of the same, unless we are talking about new mission types in mission based games. I am unsure of what exactly could qualify as new content under that definition other than a whole new game.

[DR.]

"I agree that the trading system could use work." 

With crafted stuff could offer a uncraft but it has a chance not not give full materials back so like 75-100%. That way don't need to find a seller of that certain class lock item that a hard sell. We all have had one so you should all now what i mean. Injustice any one. 

With legendary's all you can really do is control what drops more so less random than it is atm. What i mean by that is dragon axe,tp,ab...etc should be a rare drop atm as of it over saturated in the market and stuff like sok efs... stuff we all now has not dropped in a long time Vgs plz.. that people would overpay for they should be on the tables.

Was talking to nka and we both argead every single legendary should at least drop once or more per year. I can't even think of the last efs it been what almost 2 year i would think.

^ The legendary idea would be a lot of work and you need to keep track of what is dropping/what people want/what people are selling. To add that means devs will put a more clear value on things.

So brings up the point is it worth the time to do that just so they can bring up/down the value in some things ?

[Winter]

"I agree that the trading system could use work." 

With crafted stuff could offer a uncraft but it has a chance not not give full materials back so like 75-100%. That way don't need to find a seller of that certain class lock item that a hard sell. We all have had one so you should all now what i mean. Injustice any one. 

With legendary's all you can really do is control what drops more so less random than it is atm. What i mean by that is dragon axe,tp,ab...etc should be a rare drop atm as of it over saturated in the market and stuff like sok efs... stuff we all now has not dropped in a long time Vgs plz.. that people would overpay for they should be on the tables.

Was talking to nka and we both argead every single legendary should at least drop once or more per year. I can't even think of the last efs it been what almost 2 year i would think.

^ The legendary idea would be a lot of work and you need to keep track of what is dropping/what people want/what people are selling. To add that means devs will put a more clear value on things.

So brings up the point is it worth the time to do that just so they can bring up/down the value in some things ?

I am not against uncrafting, but I do believe it needs to be a system better than just getting back 75% of materials.  In most other games, uncrafting gives back 20% or less.  I'd personally like to see it related to your crafting level like many other games have done.  However, that will have to be worked on after current planned changes in similar realms have been finished and a clear consensus has been reached on this one.

The legendary market is sensitive, but I agree that some items are too rare and others are too common.  As with most things, though, there are disagreements on how exactly things should be run and how common different items should be.  There is already a system in place to monitor drops.  However, the random chance code makes it a bit hard to set a certain quota without writing a lot of additional code.  There are ideas floating around on this, but there are other more gameplay related changes being addressed right now that take priority.

[Kaasovic]

Why do you think Faravin "quit" NI.

There is really little to do once you reach end tier gear for all your classes, and trying to level up new ones is so tedious. I have alt-f4'd my game plenty of times when there was only one 16/16 server available.

Also, since there are so little active developers (three or four) a lot of requested features will never make it in to the game despite the answer being: "It can be done".

But theres also plenty of useless admins whos help you never can rely on. These admins only applied to get the password to do the cheeky 17/16. Only one or two admins are active on discord etc. and just one to set up events. Big shoutout for Bluzark, most helpful and best admin EU.

Oh and if you seek fun in playing this game, hop on teamspeak for some classy banter while playing the mod.

[[UK]_Kaas]

Big shoutout for Bluzark, most helpful and best admin EU.

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[Image: sad_frog.jpg]

[Sargent Q]

Another issue with adding new "content", is the AI itself. Far to dumb to do much of anything with and unchangeable. I remember seeing some ideas go up on here for a siege attack or stuff like that. The issue with those ideas is the AI itself.

That is also a part of the "No fun allowed" that you are talking about. There is a very VERY thin line between Kiting/Cading and Glitching.

Another thing that does is the community itself. When a run blames a wipe on someone placing cades differently, They can and will report said player. Try to have fun yourself, But don't kill it for the other people on the run.

Also, Eyleen. Spawns are still messed up from the rewrite, Some of those issues should be fixed in the next patch.

Yes the change in XP was done to make kiting less attractive to people. Given that it is supposed to be a team game, It makes sense that they would try to encourage that part of it. Nor is that part alone enough to kill it in my opinion.

I will admit though that spawns of loki were buffed to kill kiting on rag, However I don't have a issue with that due to the fact that Rag mode is fighting goods themselves. Even the best Swadians shouldn't be able to kill them solo.

And to make something clear about those statements i just made. I enjoy kiting a lot, I have gone to wave 17 of Hard and wave 10 of Rag solo before.

[Alphaa]

I will admit though that spawns of loki were buffed to kill kiting on rag, However I don't have a issue with that due to the fact that Rag mode is fighting goods themselves. Even the best Swadians shouldn't be able to kill them solo.

No Swadian should be able to resurrect others with a book. Imao.

[LoMas]

Edit:  I'll go ahead and mention the part about no new content.  What exactly does qualify as new content?  New maps, bots, items, and classes/skills are about as much as I can see happening, and honestly how is that any less than what other games offer in content expansions?  More storyline, perhaps?  I'm honestly curious, as I also cannot think of any expansion that is not made up of those things in any other game.  Dark Souls expansions are more maps, enemies, and lore (glorious lore), Warframe is generally more of the same with a greater focus on items and story/quests, ESO is more of the same, any paid DLC I can think of is just more of the same, unless we are talking about new mission types in mission based games.  I am unsure of what exactly could qualify as new content under that definition other than a whole new game.

Yes. This. More story line. Lore of SOME kind. I'd definitely enjoy that, don't know about anyone else though.

"The Nords have invaded Swadia and His Royal Highness has summoned all his forces to defend the nation and repel the invaders. Reports are coming in that huge armies are making their way through the pass at Jelbegi. Meanwhile, hundreds of refugees have been making the arduous trip to safety following attacks on local villages.
The King has called for all available units to assist.
That's where you come in...."

Thats about as much of a story as this mod has currently. Quests need work - give us tasks to do actual things such as; Complete runs. Heal teammates. Revive teammates. A salary for healers. Anything other than kill X of enemy Y to get Z amount of gold. Rewards for doing things to help the team, rather than grind out kills.

As it sits, as I stated earlier, there is no real motivation to complete runs - no benefit to stay to the end of wave 20 after the boss is killed.

----
@Rowan:

"Master saying purchasing the Ullrs Bane maybe wasn't worth it (excuse if I have misread what you have said) but for me, I look to create a dream loadout for all my characters and part of the fun for me is working my way up to the weapons and armour in that dream loadout. It makes the game more interesting."

When you grind for months to buy an item that is +1 damage than what you already had, and pay a super inflated price because so few of them exist, it loses it's fun. And what happens when you have all the gear you want? Thats the main issue. Once you have the "best" gear, the game feels too easy. And far to slow a grind as well. 

Take normal mode for example - 20 waves, and only 16-20 are worth fuck all to anyone not leveling. Any team of 2 with end tier gear can complete a normal, or even a hard if they know what they are doing.

It's been said that the Swadians shouldn't be able to kill the gods by themselves (no more kiting). So why is it that Swadians have the ability to wipe out the entire Nordic army?

---

Don't get me wrong - I still like NI, but the mod has fundamental flaws. I already took a long break - just came back and I'm stuck in a loop again. My main char is an archer. The only real motivation I have to use it is for black arrows, which as soon as those come up, you've got people with shit tons of cash to dump on them. No way will the average player get some of these items - only the smallest of groups will ever have the chance to use them, so "new legendaries" aren't exactly new content to the mod when only one or two people use them.

~M

[Looter]

Heroes and Generals had an intresting two tiered gameplay: a Website based campaign map which affects the game servers in that generals are the ones to provide certain troop types or support vehicles, and the "heroes" part which is the in game where players make use of the resources/troop types given by the generals in the "war" servers.

Ni could do something similar to this, have a normal line of servers as they are now, and anouther group serving "war" mode where what troop types are avalible depend on the resources the generals brought to that battle. I'll do anouther post with a more in depth of this later in a separate thread and link it here.

Game here if you want to know what kind of thing I'm talking about: https://heroesandgenerals.com

Oh, Forgot about the fact there's no one to work on this stuff. Never mind about this suggestion since it would be pointless to post something that wouldn't be done.

[Winter]

Edit:  I'll go ahead and mention the part about no new content.  What exactly does qualify as new content?  New maps, bots, items, and classes/skills are about as much as I can see happening, and honestly how is that any less than what other games offer in content expansions?  More storyline, perhaps?  I'm honestly curious, as I also cannot think of any expansion that is not made up of those things in any other game.  Dark Souls expansions are more maps, enemies, and lore (glorious lore), Warframe is generally more of the same with a greater focus on items and story/quests, ESO is more of the same, any paid DLC I can think of is just more of the same, unless we are talking about new mission types in mission based games.  I am unsure of what exactly could qualify as new content under that definition other than a whole new game.

Yes. This. More story line. Lore of SOME kind. I'd definitely enjoy that, don't know about anyone else though.

"The Nords have invaded Swadia and His Royal Highness has summoned all his forces to defend the nation and repel the invaders. Reports are coming in that huge armies are making their way through the pass at Jelbegi. Meanwhile, hundreds of refugees have been making the arduous trip to safety following attacks on local villages.
The King has called for all available units to assist.
That's where you come in...."

I also don't know how wide of a market this would serve. I'm also not sure how a storyline can be shown instead of simply told given the current game mechanics, but I believe there have been attempts at lore on the forum. I guess this is up to someone that feels like they are a good writer.