Ding Dong, NI Is Dead

[ON_Glenn]

This mod is far from dead. Almost every work day there are 2-3 servers FULL of players. There are still new players coming too this mod everyday that means that they will replace the óld' players.

For the 'high'tier end legends: Ofcourse rich people buy them that is how it works. Same in the real world. I suggest start trading and you will get there.

[BaconPancakes]

I'll try to fit all these replies in a single post which is pretty difficult and looks really ugly on this forum

I do not see any point in this thread as this seems to be more of a complaint/argument when both sides can be argued for without a doubt. This thread should instead be used for developing ideas that the mod can do but complaining how the mod is dead won't make a single difference.

Most of the reason I gave are absolute negatives in the mod, I find it hard to see how someone could see them as intended features rather than something that needs to be fixed. I didn't make this thread to waste my time complaining, I made it to lay out the reasons I believe the mod is failing and whether or not people will want change is up to them.

Most games have a "fun" ramp up of resources required for the top tier - see Champion 160 gear in ESO that is literally 10 times as expensive as the previous tier.  As in it is exactly 10 times the materials to craft.  People that don't feel it is necessary for the +2p or +1% armor simply don't buy it, and there is definitely no shortage of that in ESO.  Don't even get me started on the grind in TERA.

I wasn't trying to say that items are too expensive, a system where the items increase exponentially in price would be fine if gaining wealth in the game didn't simply come down to insanely unlikely chance determined by RNG. In MMOs there's generally a way to steadily gain wealth over time and rare drops were just a bonus, but do not make up all of your profits. You can expect to be able to afford the top tier equipment within a certain amount of time dedicated to the game. NI has it all backwards, the only things on the drop table are super rare items and your gradual increase in wealth is nonexistent. Once you get that lucky spin on the RNG enough times to be able to the afford top tier equipment you want, you're still never going to get it because they're monopolized by people who will only sell if you overpay a large amount. On the off chance you finally get you hands on the item you want, you get a whole +1 damage that will likely not even matter against most nords, hooray!

People will always find the easiest/fastest spot for grinding and create rules that they expect others to follow on how to get resources the fastest.  This isn't to say I agree with it, but I certainly don't think it is something we can blame on NI or even necessarily "fix."  It is just a way some people prefer to play their games, just as you prefer to play your games a different way.  If you want to play a different way, get a group of friends together and play that way.  To clarify my point, I don't disagree with you.  I think you are absolutely right, there is a "no fun allowed" aspect to it and it has been present since my redshirt days, and I have had very close real life friends stop playing because they just couldn't enjoy it.  However, I don't think this is an issue unique to NI or even something that can really be changed about gear/grind based video games.

NI only has one way to play, and that's sitting in cades. Good MMOs have methods of playing that sacrifice efficiency and xp gains in favor of entertainment value along with high efficiency methods that require a high amount of attention. You don't see this in NI, everyone is always sitting in the same cades at the same regular cade spot and gaining the same xp with the same chance at loot. I don't know how this would be fixed unless the game was redesigned from the bottom up, but this is the main factor that contributes to the repetitive nature of NI.

I'm not sure about the super rich really controlling the market.  I haven't seen much direct market manipulation.  However, I don't see how this is much different from any game or even real life.  The only way I can see of preventing this is developer interference, and I'm more of an advocate for free markets.

The people with an insane amount of wealth own all the scarce and most desired items. Your progress in the game is capped at a certain point despite having acquired the wealth to upgrade past that point because you have to rely on whether or not someone will sell to you. There's simply nothing you can do short of begging for them to sell besides waiting for the next drop or having to waste all your money paying a premium price for an item that can only depreciate. You don't see monopolization like this often in other games.

Do any video games really have a purpose other than to be a fun time sink?  If you aren't having fun anymore, then by all means, do something else.  Come back later on if you feel like it, don't come back later on if you don't feel like it.  You are your own man.

I've done that plenty of times...lol. It's just that sometimes I hope to come back to a game that might have changed even slightly after not playing it for several months.

As far as the mod being dead... well... perhaps to you, but there appear to be others that don't think so.  I'm not sure saying the game is dead is the best way to go about voicing your concerns on it.  I guess it goes back to the point of this thread.  Do you want something to change, do you want to express frustration, is this a goodbye letter, or none of the above?  What do you want to happen with this?

I don't care what happens with this thread, take whatever from it you want. I feel the mod has reached the brink to where it can be considered dead. I've stated the shortcomings of the mod which many would agree with. Whether or not the community can reinvigorate it is up to them, but I don't see that happening with the direction it's currently headed.

Edit:  I'll go ahead and mention the part about no new content.  What exactly does qualify as new content?  New maps, bots, items, and classes/skills are about as much as I can see happening, and honestly how is that any less than what other games offer in content expansions?  More storyline, perhaps?  I'm honestly curious, as I also cannot think of any expansion that is not made up of those things in any other game.  Dark Souls expansions are more maps, enemies, and lore (glorious lore), Warframe is generally more of the same with a greater focus on items and story/quests, ESO is more of the same, any paid DLC I can think of is just more of the same, unless we are talking about new mission types in mission based games.  I am unsure of what exactly could qualify as new content under that definition other than a whole new game.

When most other games get major updates, it offers something new and interesting that would make you want to play for more than you would with just the base game. When there is more added to the map, there are places to explore and things to do that you would not experience without the update. When a new item is added, it does something unique that adds to the games entertainment value other than just being something with slightly higher stats that existing items. New enemies are not just copy paste of existing enemies that shoot 5 arrows instead of 1 and offer some new challenge that you would not get with existing enemies. None of the new items or maps added to NI keep me interested in the game, they change nothing and I will likely never even get to use most of the new items, but honestly don't care because they're just slightly better versions of items that were already in the game.

Also, since there are so little active developers (three or four) a lot of requested features will never make it in to the game despite the answer being: "It can be done".

But theres also plenty of useless admins whos help you never can rely on. These admins only applied to get the password to do the cheeky 17/16. Only one or two admins are active on discord etc. and just one to set up events. Big shoutout for Bluzark, most helpful and best admin EU.

Agreed. We could discuss all the great things that could be added to improve the mod and fix its problems, but they will never actually make it into the game.

Yes. This. More story line. Lore of SOME kind. I'd definitely enjoy that, don't know about anyone else though.

Thats about as much of a story as this mod has currently. Quests need work - give us tasks to do actual things such as; Complete runs. Heal teammates. Revive teammates. A salary for healers. Anything other than kill X of enemy Y to get Z amount of gold. Rewards for doing things to help the team, rather than grind out kills.

I agree with this. There are plenty of ways to translate story line into game play. I think better quests are a good idea and is something that would add a bit a variety and objectives to the game other than just killing the boss on wave 20.

This mod is far from dead. Almost every work day there are 2-3 servers FULL of players. There are still new players coming too this mod everyday that means that they will replace the óld' players.

For the 'high'tier end legends: Ofcourse rich people buy them that is how it works. Same in the real world. I suggest start trading and you will get there.

I don't know if I'm playing the same mod as you, but it has certainly declined and I doubt new players are replacing all the people leaving. With legendaries the problem is that you CAN'T trade. How are you supposed to buy an item when you can't compete with people who are able to throw crazy amounts of cash at sellers and then hold onto the item forever, effectively removing that item from the market?

[Winter]

I disagree that NI has only one way to play. It is possible that you may only see one way commonly, but that does not mean it is the only way to play.

You definitely see monopolization of rare items like that in other games with small communities. I agree that it isn't pleasant, but it also isn't unique.

I agree that most changes would require a change from the ground up, which is something that isn't really possible with the current available manpower. This is also related to the part about major updates - there haven't been many, you are right. The last "major" update was well over a year ago, not including beginner mode which added nothing to end-game.

I like the idea of reworked quests making actual lore for the game. It may even be cool to have map based lore. However, this is all up to whether or not someone is willing to put in the effort for it.

I'm retired. I just do the occasional bugfix that people ask me for and discuss things on the forum because that is all I can be bothered to do. I can't speak for the developer team and their opinions on what can and cannot change and what they are willing to put in the effort to change, but I think one thing does need to be remembered - NI has no profit whatsoever, people are actually losing money to make it run. The people that do put in their time to develop for the game do so when their own personal lives allow for it. It isn't fair to compare it to AAA games with paid developers and paid DLCs and then be upset when it is found lacking, and I certainly don't think that makes it "dead." The very fact that there have been so many posts stating as much for well over 5 years now means their accuracy is limited and is more of an opinion shared by some than a fact known by many.

I like that you have shared your opinions on places the mod is lacking and I even agree, at least in part, on most of them, but I don't care for your assertion that the mod is dead because there are things people don't like about it.

[Malong]

I will admit though that spawns of loki were buffed to kill kiting on rag,  However I don't have a issue with that due to the fact that Rag mode is fighting goods themselves.  Even the best Swadians shouldn't be able to kill them solo.

No Swadian should be able to resurrect others with a book. Imao.

[Stillicho]

I'll try to fit all these replies in a single post which is pretty difficult and looks really ugly on this forum

I'm not sure about the super rich really controlling the market.  I haven't seen much direct market manipulation.  However, I don't see how this is much different from any game or even real life.  The only way I can see of preventing this is developer interference, and I'm more of an advocate for free markets.

The people with an insane amount of wealth own all the scarce and most desired items. Your progress in the game is capped at a certain point despite having acquired the wealth to upgrade past that point because you have to rely on whether or not someone will sell to you. There's simply nothing you can do short of begging for them to sell besides waiting for the next drop or having to waste all your money paying a premium price for an item that can only depreciate. You don't see monopolization like this often in other games.

The only thing I have to say to this is....welcome to the regular distribution of wealth in a market. 1% Controls 90%. Deal with it.

[LordChaos]

Greetings everyone,

I think that most of the active players that shared their point of view are mainly pointing out some things such as :

1) Materials are too hard to get or not worth it.

2) Lack of challenge (end gear/+ no motivation).

3) NI "dead". 

4) Problem with trades & Values of legendaries & the droprate of some.

5) Problem of actually getting money.

There are some ideas to fix most of these problems. You want something appealing?

- Well, we could propose to replace some or 1 of the normal servers (EU/NA - Sorry AU, not sure how many normal servers you have) to some of the old events that happened. You could do a rotation of 2 weeks of a server, 2 weeks break then we go back to a new type of event. Random gear was silly but fun, we could use the X-mas theme, who cares if it's not x-max, same thing with the halloween event. More fun.

- You want extra money? Do you remember that event on April's fools with the "Nothing" and "Something", it was some extra money, it wasn't much, but imagine if we would have kept this since it had happened, everyone would actually be slightly richer. It would be greatly benefical for everyone and rewarding. ++Money.

- We're not that big of a community, and I do enjoy roleplaying sometimes, and I am pretty sure that some of you do aswell or (or not), but we could get things interresting if we enabled 1 roleplaying server? We have so many servers that are "useless" and empty. 
(Mode changes with map rotation eg : 
1 round duel map for 1h or something, second round could be a normal run but with roleplayers, I bet even that beginner mode could be enjoyed, third map could be a siege map with a number preset of bots and their types preset aswell (it could be hard but fun aswell and challenging)). Roleplay. (Wink to Looter, ps : you still owe the kingsguard a small bribe before he allows you to leave with all this loot).

- As for the last idea, it will be controversial and probably refused, but we do indeed need something about the droprates. I am not the only one who has been playing for a while and never looted anything, or had been so unlucky to dc after w16 or whatever what kind of reason could happen. But if you want some challenge AND rewards for your hard and long time that played this mod, that left that bad taste everytime you have hoped and didn't get anything, here's a solution : enable the faction points to be traded for a "mystery box". Before you jump out of your seat, sit down and read :

You will need "x" faction points (thought of 1000 or 500?) to get a that box which will get you one item of the following: 
- Red material (90-95%)
- Legendary (even the extincts) (1-3%)
- amount of gold (100 000 - 200 000 - 500 000) (3-5%)

So opening this box guaranties you to have AT LEAST a red material, and not a crappy item to reward your contribution to the King and the Kingdom by completing the quests. They reward a small amount of fp, the highest I've seen is 250, but it is a crazy quest :

In it for the Long Haul
We need to know you're serious about your commitment to the Swadian Army. 

Show us this commitment in Nord Blood and you will be rewarded handsomely.

• 
  
• Kill the following:
  
  
• 2500 x Nord Peasant (1155 / 2500)
  
  
• 750 x Nord Intruder (137 / 750)
  
  
• 1000 x Nord Serf (285 / 1000)
  

• 
  
• Reward:
  
  
• 5000 
  
  
• 250 FP
  
  

So here are some ideas that could make it more enjoyable and fair for everyone. Let's keep the flame alive   .

Thank you for reading, 

LordChaos/Zulfaqar/Fatsod

[Freddie]

Yea +1 to Lord Chaos, something and nothings were cool, and did give some extra cash, and the only thing with faction points is that the richer people will probably have more,
Or you could just raise the gold and xp of the kills

Edit: You shouldn't be able to get legendaries more chance from faction points

[Noname]

What I thought of recently was adding something like ingame-missions. Players will get a message from the server telling them what to do, for example "defend spot xy" or "kill bot xy before reaching the cades". I think this would bring a lot more challenge to the game, especially if there would be special bots for just this cause. After completing the task everyone in the server gets some kind of reward, which could go with Faction Points as well (if they're supposed to get a use anytime soon). Otherwise some small (guaranteed?) drops can be received (something like 5-10 HM perhaps), which would also help lowering prices of mats you need for pretty much every item. Any other ideas/suggestions on this?

[DR.]

Btw
As someone that has play well just about the most Ni i have
2,971/2,181/6,226/2,056/861/13,331/16,146/5,301/470/3,506/12,116

=65,165k of FP

[Falankos]

If you want to deal with the inflated prices, you would need to introduce a new feature for players to sink their money into and effectively removing it from the game (e.g. Hero class). The hero classes were introduced shortly after I started playing the mod and if I recall correctly it lead to lower prices for mats as well as legendaries (that is their value measured in money). Obviously it wouldn't deal with the rarity or obtainability of legendaries but in the end that is what makes them so desirable. You shouldn't be able to own them all at the same time, unless you are NKA.
This new feature I am speaking of should especially be aimed at the richest to expand their end game since those are the ones hoarding hundreds of millions pieces of gold.
Obviously this is only one of many possible solutions to deal with the trading problem and probably not the most efficient but it might do the trick. Increasing the money you gain per run might change the situation in favor for the poorer part of the community momentarily but would increase the problem in the long run.