Rise from the Ashes

[Malong]

The people that want to do this quest most efficiently will pick the play style that's needed as they already do. You may need to demonstrate why people wouldn't. I would argue doing this playstyle would be done by a good amount of people including yourself. I can say this as you care more about efficiency than me but i would do it.

I don't need to demonstrate why people would not modify their behavior, you brought up that behavior, not me. But anyway, if what you say is true, and people do care about completing the quest, they would already play the most efficient method. Do you think changing the parameters by which quest credit is given would suddenly incentivize more people to play differently? This hasn't been established. And then you are trying to project yourself to the rest of the game, but we're not like most players.

People ask "save that bot" all the time so most people are still invested in quests. You still have Inf taking big risks trying to kill Loke for example for Legacy. 

Just think If this was for boss kills... Fuck me you would have people firing away when the dead are saying tome... tome!. This already happens to some extent but just think how bad it would be. Thank god you did not suggest that.

"All the time?" I've only seen this asked once in public the past month and that was for Hodur. The only public players I've seen hitting Loki in melee were newer players that didn't know the mechanics. That's not "most people." As for people hitting bosses while others are dead: again, you have to demonstrate that they do this because they care about getting the boss kill, instead of any other reason.

The Incentive to work by yourself with a change like this is so big people would do it.
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It can also be said I did not say all people would do this it would only take a few people every game. If we had 10 ranged people and 3 of them were doing this play style they would finish the quest faster and slow the others down. Given people are greedy i can't see why people would not do this play style if they want to do the quest the quickest. You may as well do quests in the meantime when you're looking for that sick loot. It's not like it takes much more skill for most teams as all it would do is extend the time played and difficulty level when the game is so easy atm.

If the few interested players trying to play optimally would be a problem, why has it not manifested into a problem for these 16 months of this quest's existence? Why can't a significant part of the population already play more efficiently by waiting until a bot is damaged before attempting to get the last hit? Why would changing credit from kills to damage dealt suddenly cause players who don't already care about efficiency to do otherwise? In other words, prove it!

As said before and it seems you don't deny it [if] people pick that way of playing the game would 1. Be Harder by some % 2. Take longer by some %. 3. Thinking atm i guess It would be almost like damage stealing from other players by not helping the team only himself. I did say almost.

What?

Instead of "Siege Master" ill use Eastern Adventure from wave 13 normal. If we had a 16 man run it would only take 1 person with a bow to hit them in the body from far (if he could not 1 hit them). 
Then once they get killed he would aim for Nord Veteran Berserker or Nord Axemaster or Swadian Deserter. On normal and hard the problem i see on rag gets amplified as now you don't need good gear to do this play style.

That's not the most efficient way. You want to complete each bot in a difficulty in as close a time interval as possible to avoid bottlenecks, or runs where you only need one bot from a wave that has multiple bots.

Saying it would even out does not make sense at all when people like me with ping or some other factors could never compete with just a person. Atm im over 80% on my mara if it was damage based from the start at what point would i ever catch up. If you say well you need to be 100% focused to get max... well i would just be doing that play style... Mind you most of my score has been using mangler were bots are already hit from someone else.

You really should read. Never did I post it "would even out" with this suggestion, but rather the current system probably evens out over the course of at least 46500 bots (i.e. sometimes someone gets the last hit on a bot I've been hitting, and sometimes I get the last hit on a bot someone else has been hitting, and it's probably about even, but not exactly, so we should strive to credit people accordingly).

Anyway, I think we finally got to the heart of your objection; you think it would make you take longer to complete the quest. But tell me, which is fair: someone does the initial 55% of the work and gets no credit, while someone else does the remaining 45% of the work and gets all the credit. Why not make it equitable based on the work each player has done?

In that department part of manglers downside is its speed when using its 2nd mode... Normally if someone has a legacy next to me were are about even in kills. I do more damage and his faster who do you think would win in this quest if it was damage related. (if i could not use throwing) I say the legacy would be "kill stealing" from me more and I'm fine with it. I use that class the most because i like it the most. I'm fine with its downsides as i value at least atm its positives more than any class. Buff sentry so it can be my new number 1. 

What is the relevance of this scenario? Are you planning on playing alongside someone else for the entirety of this quest? But anyway, it would still depend on a huge factor such as slashing spot, the movement of the bots and which part of the shield wall they go, where the ranged is aiming, etc.

Close ill get to that in the next part.

Ive been thinking on this topic for some days on and off and think i may of found something that would make us and all people happy.

1st off i don't think i want this on bosses for the same point I said in this post. hp/damage quest for bosses would lead to kills with people dead. Max salt in Ni is when your dead for loot just because people not giving a shit about toming.

Setting it that way for bosses would be fine with me. That's part of playing public servers: you can't feel entitled to being tomed in for a boss. I've been dead for many bosses that I would have been tomed in for if it was an event. Oh well, it's public, don't take it personally.

I came to this idea as in a very basic form what you want is to be rewarded for the assist. Assist got me thinking about other games like CsGo.

Let's say Malong hits a bot for 66% (2/3) then Forward 20% and last i get the kill. 

If a system was like if a player hits a bot for more than 60-75% of the Hp it has (I think 2/3 would be a good amount) they are rewarded with an assist. Note i would not want this lower than 60 as i would only want 2 people max being rewarded. 1 for the assist and the other the killing blow.
 
We could have in the game a counter next to the kills

Ye, i have 350 kills in that pic but I'm sure the people below me would have more assists than kills. Showing assists ingame would make sense being a team game.

Now that I've given a brief intro to what I think assists should be in Ni ill go over what I think could be done with them. 

With Ashes, i would make it either

A. 2 assists are equal to 1 kill or B. they are equivalent so both players get that "kill" for that quest. Note people would be doing the quest a lot faster so im would be willing to say the people have done it already would be rewarded.

The point of making quest credit based on damage dealt is to make it "unquestionably equitable," as dealing N% of damage to a bot gives you N% credit, so however much you contribute comes back to you as credit...

Your suggestion just takes the same idea to base it off damage, but draws an arbitrary line at which you receive credit and in an arbitrary amount. If you only want one person getting an assist credit, why not just make it > 50% (i.e. the minimum for this "issue" of two people getting assist credit to be solved). And you want to set it such that 60% of a job gets someone 50% of credit? [Q voice] What (is the correlation between 60% damage dealt and 50% credit)?! Why?!

If you can demonstrate the new ones provide value and are worth implementing, then sure. But that decision is mutually exclusive of tuning a different feature.

[big block]

You missed the point. You already brought those quest ideas up in its own thread and it got no dev response. Irrespective of these posts and this discussion, that's your answer.