Rise from the Ashes

[DR.]

There is a lot of space to improve this dying mod in other aspects to make it more attractive for average player. That's where development team resources should go.

Low level and high level quests reward all players and give goals to Ni.

Suggest other changes that would be easier to do than making more quests that affect everyone for the better. 


Making simple kill quests are easy. Changing the way the quests are done if that be damage or adding assist is a lot harder.

The quests I've said with new concepts are once im 90% sure will not get in any time soon but are worth saying.

To make Rise from the Ashes with this number of bots 50, 100, 250, [atm], 750, 1000.  Would not even take a day of work going from how easy quests have been made in the past.

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Do you think changing the parameters by which quest credit is given would suddenly incentivize more people to play differently? This hasn't been established.

Want to see if you would find out for yourself but guess not.

I've never said more I've said incentivize people. Used Ctrl + F if you need to.

Incentivize people that go after quests already to play differently knowing the outcome of the game will have little no effect. 

In saying this they may not do it all the time but what's stopping them from turning from helping the team on normal to let's try to get max damage here. 

Nothing is stopping him here so yes people will do it.

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I need a meme where the top line says "Completed Rise from the Ashes" and the bottom text says "Doesn't Play Much Normal Mode"

We're also on a Ragnarok server right now (at the moment I'm typing this) where no one tried to kill Loki through melee...

I'm playing bingo is it working? 

Yes. [what? haha]

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[Q voice] What? Wead! (or at least don't draw conclusions from unrelated statements)

Remember the post where I typed "I never typed it wasn't fine, that's why I strived to complete it." You are just typing the repeatedly that has been addressed by something else, pretending the text doesn't exist, or you're not reading.

1)[if] 1 person out of 16 picks [that way of playing] the game what do you think would happen for that run.

2)[if] 3 players pick [that way of playing] the game what do you think would happen for that run.

3)[if] all 16 players pick [that way of playing] the game what do you think would happen for that run.

1. This already sometimes happens; there is a negligible effect because those players kill other bots too. And it's not like they only aim for bots they need, other bots will get incidentally killed.
   
2. This happened when the quest first came out and more players actively worked on it.
   
3. This hasn't happened, so there's no evidence. Even when more players tried to complete the quest, there would always be some that would play classes like RG that had no chance of completing it, which is enough proof that this will never happen. People care about winning first and foremost that your scenario wouldn't happen.
   

or something else.


"kill other bots too"  
You have done Ashes so I will detect this to you. 
When you needed a bot more than any others at (x) wave and you see 5 of them and 7 other bots who do you aim for? 

(A) Did you aim to kill them as fast as you could and "kill stealing" other peoples maybe?
or
(B) Did you try to hit everyone knowing at the time you needed the kill, not the damage?

(A) would be a faster way to do the quest atm. 
(B) would be a faster way to do the quest if it was for damage.

Out of (A) and (B) who helped the team more? 

(A) Should players be reward by helping the team just run kill bots the fastest 
or 
(B) Should it reward people doing that?

"other bots will get incidentally killed." 

Sure if you're using something with no accuracy or bad luck or You are shit.

For someone that's done the quest yourself or the people that are atm over a good amount of this quest already will have good aim. Its not a hard game at all i play on avg with 200-300 ping yet most of the time i hit my target with a bow/xbow/daggers. We are playing against bots here...

Sure i may miss 1 out 5 shots or even less in some cases but that effect is negligible. Considering crosshair placement and other factors like most of the time bots of the same kind are close by each other I see this point as null in void.

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The first part is wrong. Being in a position where you have to play a difficulty just to get kills for one bot of a run means your time spent on the other waves is not going towards your quest progress. It is more efficient to get progress on the different bots of a wave evenly such that you don't have to play a difficulty mode just to have one bot of one wave complete.

"You want to complete each bot in a difficulty in as close a time interval as possible"
I agree that would be the fastest but how the hell would this happen?

[Q voice] What? 

So even tho some bots are less common on waves and knowing some bots have more waves to their name...

On wave 13 rag we have  
New This wave
Einherjar Pikeman
Nord Chosen Champion
Siege Master

Taking into consideration its grated idk maybe 1 out 10 rag runs [maybe to high even] will not even make it wave 13.

It's highly likely one of the 3 here was the last you needed for rag. Hence even if that wasn't what you needed you did have in mind want you needed the most at that point in time. 

This would be the fastest way to do the quest. Prioritize the bot that's rarest and hardest to get to over ones that are plentiful on this wave and early. 

Why hit kill an Einherjar Ranger or Einherjar Sniper or Chosen Valkyrie or Einherjar when i can try to hit every Siege Master for max damage. It and the other 2 are the hardest bot to get for the quest considering wave 14 only has 2 options and the bots are plentiful. It's not like most people can kite or even start a run that makes it to wave 13 anyway.

You would have an odder that you would follow... That's the most efficient way to do this quest atm and with it being damage.

The difference is if its damage you are incentivised to go for the kill [help the team].

Assist make it the aim is to kill the bots as fast as you can still but you are still rewarded if you helped.

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If "the quest taking longer has nothing to do with it," then why did you type:

Atm im over 80% on my mara if it was damage based from the start at what point would i ever catch up.

I used my self as an example as im someone that has not cared much but i still do a bit.

May take a year or more but I'm in no rush as the 5m reward is not even worth me only playing mara for that long without breaks. Getting the 5m tomorrow even or in an years time has almost no effect on my value or "happiness". I could not care less if the reward was less or more. 

For the amount of gold, I have spent this year and last the lowest I hit was 3m.  


Ashes is a mountain and unlike the people that have done it im taking breaks playing other heroes. I will do it one day but the view at the top is not worth rushing things.


Note even if it was 10m i would still be saying the same thing. I plan to do it but it's not a goal of mine atm.

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And yet in your suggestion, the 55% gets no assist because it's less than 60% necessary to count as an assist, and it's not the last hit, so it doesn't award the kill either.

As for the fact that you don't want to kill the bot: Do you think changing the parameters by which quest credit is given would suddenly incentivize more people to play differently?

Yes

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This hasn't been established. 

The people that have already priorities getting some bots over others to do the quest quicker i feel will do this. Maybe not all the time but that group of people would do it.

For how much people idk we are metaphorical speaking here so i can't give numbers. like you can't give numbers to [add example here]

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Other reasons: players don't know bots' remaining health, there are many times when a damaged bot will get hit anyway, and there are many times when damaged bots hinder you from moving on and have to be killed before aiming for another bot.

Read plz

how can one be sure about the health of a bot?

Seeing the ammo in the bot (throwing weapons/bolts/arrows)

I never have blood on but can that do it?

just remember the location of the bot and hit a different one.

Thats 2/3 ways to do it.


If your not sure that just extends the time of you looking for a clean bot.

It's not hard at all to aim at a bot at the back that's not been hit yet. Keeping track of all the ranged is harder but it can be done. How do you think people like me get 350 kills "kill stealing"

If i can do it with ping someone with more skill than me and has normal ping could destroy this quest for others.

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Why would you not just use items that actually exist in the game? As I've completed the quest using both Typhoon and Tempest, I can tell you it's negligible. Players were hitting bots regardless, not actively aiming to get the last hit. [=

Hmm, read [something about crossbows] I used Dead Shot my upgraded eagle as an example.  

I made the example with bows as the only parameter would be speed and damage.

Why not typhoon and tempest well like you said negligible other than flight speed. The difference in stats is so small i would be better of trying compare daggers with twigs but dagger as eh so diffent and a nerf...

I needed to make 2 things more different that what we have.

(A) I would believe for hitting faster has a higher chance of being the killing blow. Better at killing bots
(B) I would believe for having more damage would still do more damage to the bot over some amount of time but is less likely to be the final hit. Better at getting the assists.

All Snipers stuff is more of an (A) thats my problem here it's so close in stats to tempest both would be the group.

Dead shot and Alia are too different to compare. If Alia is (A) Dead Shot is (C.)

(C.) Useless on most bots as having the speed reduction for getting lots of damage is more than enough to kill most things even in rag. Its only good on a small number of bots but when its time it the bots get rekt.

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Anyway, you generally need to simultaneously tome while keeping the boss staggered. It's better to have some people keep attacking, while others tome safely, rather than everyone dropping what they're doing to tome while the boss goes and potentially kills more people.

In what cases tho?

If the boss is in range... Odin and King sometimes are. Nop.

If the boss is behind a good amount of cades. Nop.

When he's cornered. Yes but that does not mean you go full out and even then... Coming from someone that shields a bit more than you atm heals is more important than dps in this case. By a good amount.   

If the boss is running at you can kite. If your xbow or inf that's a bit different but in that case why are you so close to him?


Also, you can kite by using race lines to get away from king and prince on any hero on lots map. A. I can't take corners like we can.

Also Also Leg should either be in ranged or helping shield and the other 3 heroes should all be helping shielding.

also also also what's stopping there being a warning when the boss is low.

also also also also why reward people for being a dick.

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hypothetical issue that has been solved a long time ago.

Just an example that you gave me of ideas that don't get added as the game is not ready or its not needed atm. I could of suggested having an open inventory system. That's an idea we all want yet how long as it been? R.i.p

On that point.

I've suggested moving heroes/ids to items almost so you 1 more slot above "Weapon 1" for Heroes/ids. Updating gear updates stats as well.

Doing this would also mean you could change class without needing to quit and come back.


That has not been added as that's a mess to code.

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Some posts with suggestions (like the one in this thread) took 2 minutes to get a positive dev reply. Some feature request threads remain open for months and then get blanket closed with "thanks for your suggestion." Which do you think yours will fall under?

There have been way too many times where i will suggest something and either it gets done at a later point or they fix the problem a different way. I personally don't see even half of the idea's i put up going through. Some times i will be willing to put light on one subject so some things may happen for me or others. [benefit] It does not work all the time as it shouldn't but it can surprise me when "hay look an update came out... what a good idea" "Or hay i have something to do with all this gold"

Remember how much times i asked for a gold sink. My idea was not picked but i put light on the problem. 

https://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthrea...ht=Eastern

It may have been here or a different post/thread where i said make Ek sniper only and buff it. As at the time, Ek vs Ab was about the same stats but the only difference was Ab has the 1h mode and Ek was for sniper as well.

The change happened half a year later when at that point i moved on long ago.

That's what comes to mind when making requests for Ni to me. They may say No... or nothing hell they may say its a bad idea but they may end up doing it in time or finding another "fix". Maybe some other reasons as well.

Right now I'm questioning that sniper has wulfsbane now so should EB could be moved to only Inf. Eb could be a faster Dur with less cut like how vgs is to ags or the house crafted ones. This fixes the problem with the 2 sniper heroes being able to slash or even drop a "good" 2h and give people a real run weapon for Inf.

This is an idea i would want to see yet I don't think it will happen if i posted it. I may as well to see what other people think and to see if anyone has any better ideas on what to do with it. Also if anyone has any argument way Warden/Ranger need a 2h when all we do is use it for blocking.

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Right, this would only be a factor if you completed the quest on all your heroes on or before each renewal period with no downtime. But as you note, you "only needed 2-5 classes for max benefit." This means you knowingly created 11-14 extra heroes beyond the point that contributes to completing more quests in the same time interval "quest optimization." In other words, you knew there would be no extra quest reward from doing this, but now you want a reward for making all the heroes. Fuck that, the reward is that you have all the heroes.

At this point, I'm having too much fun [in seeing you trying to talk to me]

As said before i made all the heroes as no quest was given to me. Unlocking all things in lots of game is an achievement. Yes, 2-5 would all you need to hit max benefit but me having 12 at the time was still better than 1. from there factors.

small reasons 

I was less bored playing the same hero over and over and over again till i quit.

The smaller quests i could always do all 12 in one day. Did that for a bit.

An achievement no one has done.

big reasons

I had the ability to use all items in game so meaning. I could look for the trades with the potential to make the biggest profit and i could still use it in the meantime. Playing/trading/questing to get max profit. Normally the lesser picked classes have items with more blurry values as its less light they are getting traded as much. This can be seen with idk.. um, the hoplite red gear atm. I've got that shield 2 times for less than 5m as people can't sell it at some points in time.
Then you wait for someone that really wants it and you can double maybe even triple your value on 1 object. No scamming here just knowing how the market works. Buy something that is rare that almost noone has or would sell and keep it till someone really wants it. You cant do this with stuff for Warden for example as people always will want it. It's in high demand so it will always have a high value.       

Classes have had big buff and big nerfs in the years I've had them all. look at this for example.

https://i.gyazo.com/c69b1ce3eaf7f4ce7d1e...11a3cc.png

Duelist (Leg) had 0 throwing skill just about and the good things we see to leg atm... 

Gothic was better than pol and imp. 
Illus was 60c when dwp still had armour negation
Exc was not a thing
Leg had no throwing weapons 
...

That's just the "Duelist" example i could bring up other heroes if need be

Classes change over time... expect more changes to classes like the once Duelist were it had no big reason to pick it. 

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What? Ignoring the fact that this is supposed to be a graph based off no data, the Y-axis doesn't even measure anything, and the X-axis seems redundant to the different sections of the graph.

"supposed to be a graph"

Not even

It's all guesswork all that pic is for it to show the idea and visualise it.  

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In saying this if, for example, we had an Ashes were its 50 of each bot and you get 500k i would have something to aim for. 
This does not take away from the people that play 1 or some hero it if anything i hope you're the kills from the normal Ashes translate to this quest so you get the reward auto if you have the kills needed.

No, it's not linear. This is easily demonstrated by the fact that you get 500 of some bots long before you get 500 of others, meaning you get many kills that are redundant (so to speak) in quest goals. Getting 50 of each bot is not 1/10 the time commitment of getting 500 of eaach bot, and should not be worth 10% of the reward.

I agree with that but like i said before I'm willing to give the people that have done it more gold. It was an example of the reward as said before i don't care what it just gives me and others that are done Legacy of a Hero something to aim for next. The gap between quests is so big...

Legacy of a hero can be done in easily less than a week if you try [best was 3 days]. I'll call it 2 weeks just because I'll put it at it weakest for a player like myself.

Now compare that to other quests after that. I'll let you make this graph as you seem nice and eager.


Compare all quests once you hit lvl 52 with the rewards vs how long they would ruffly take. Also, highlight quests that can only be done more than once.
Also maybe level each quest for how hard it would be for example. Do it how you want but i think the harder the quest the better the reward. No idea where cav quests would go. Guess we only have 2 of them ahaha...

Normal
Rank 1 - Dead at the Top
Rank 2 - Collecting Heads I
Rank 3 - In It for the Long Haul
Hard
Rank 4 - Can't Hit a Moving Target
Rank 5 - Collecting Heads II
Rank 6 - Defender of Calradia
Rag
Rank 7 - Break the Shields that Block Us
Rank 8 - Collecting Heads III
Rank 9 - Defender of Midgard
All
Rank 10 - Rise from the Ashes <-- Legacy of a Hero and Prime Slayer would maybe be here idk up to you.


I want you to do this to show how many outliers we have atm in quests and the rewards they give.  

Examples
Gotcha, Bloody Bastards!
In It for the Long Haul (1,2,3)
Congratulations, Minion Killer...
...
etc

Legacy of a Hero is 500k... I would see killing 50 of each bot to being about the equal value given it would take longer but it would be easier.

Balance the quests out more with whatever you make Rise from the Ashes new reward.
or
Nerf the Outlining quests

I think players would rather getting more value out the quests they do.

Yes, i don't think it should be linear but it's already not linear... Rise from the Ashes was made as a joke but its got to the point were the joke happened and people have done it. Rise from the Ashes is 10x the reward of Legacy of a Hero but Legacy of a hero can be done in 3 days or less at best.

In the time you were doing this you made a lot more gold by turning Xp into gold... 5m for a quest like this is arguably shit. I can make 5m+ easy in 1 trade that takes place over less than a day. If your good at trading or dont have the value to do big trades you can get 5m by hard grinding for about 5 or so weeks.

Overall I think Legacy of a hero being 500k is fine its the others that need changing but i would be fine if it got a nerf and other quests that take longer got a buff. Either way, it's not linear at all atm.

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So you don't play the most efficient way to complete quests now, but you suddenly would if it was changed to damage? What is to stop you from playing to get the quests done now and "making runs take longer" or whatever your fear was?

I'm speaking hypothetically for someone that does atm. I did care about legacy of a hero as it was doable in a small time frame.

I guess if you wanted it on this quest you wanted it on all.

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What? And are you saying that your picture like pictures of the same gender?

Turned out gay fuck.
set up

The gays took rgb from us.
punch line

Pic
delivery
[inside joke]

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Use pattern recognition.

Best thing i've is ever seen on this thread. You did not make my day you made my week :')
[inside joke]
https://i.gyazo.com/d2b2436d78904418c587...0c6205.png