Change orange legendaries

[Malong]

I actually searched, but is there an expectation that a thread titled "Hero+" would have related to "gold sinks[s]?" 

It wasn't even that far down if you just searched "gold sink" https://gyazo.com/cc92efd95892802bf0e3a75b52cb33e2

Calling it hero+... The name implying I want better than the hero stats we had... What did you think the cost would be?

The point wasn't where the search result sits in the list, and obviously it would have the text "gold sink" in it if it returned in a text search. But you claim you suggested gold sinks (which multiple players, admins, and devs have brought up at least about three years prior), but instead it's as a side effect of another rejected change. It's like you were "putting a light on" a topic that was already quite well lit.

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If in your years of filing feature requests (this is still overdue), you had ever learned how to submit a clear one, that would help.

[Link]

Who do you think is taking more in this strange relationship. You that likes to point out things sometimes very petty things and have a laugh. Good for you. 

Or me, I like pressing some buttons knowing I'm improving at this skill that I was once heavily lacking in. I'm not the best at writing a request and I never will be but I'm improving. I'm practising on something I feel passionate about being Ni. Also, Its good fun stirring the pot every so offended.

I think we both win or lose as we are here for different things. 

/sigh, this again. It's been 6-7 years (August 2013 to now) and this thread demonstrates your reading comprehension level. Reading regularly for that duration would have been more beneficial, but I guess you're not interested because it's not attached to an electronic form of vapid escapism. Regardless, nobody is falling for it:

Cute, but entirely too predictable

[Y]ou aren't some master debater.  You are the only one that thinks that, and I'm just telling you because I think someone has to.

The old "get backed into a corner and type the transparent 'you got played'" again. "Cute but entirely too predictable."

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"Woody committed murder. Don't ask me for proof, that's just petty, just go arrest him, judge him guilty for first degree murder, and sentence him immediately. I'm not doing all of your homework. Ooh ooh ah ah ah."

I gave the evidence I wanted a big gold sink before upgrades as that's all I really need to show. This judge feels biased. 

Assuming what you posted fit that criteria (and I'm disputing it does), your initial stance was:

You can find them yourself because I'm not doing all of your homework. 

To claim otherwise, or that you had tried to argue otherwise at this point in time in the thread is incredibly disingenuous.

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I would argue that's a consequence of the changes, and not strictly the intention. 

So devs make changes to how the game is and Its "not strictly the intention" things may change? What??

The devs can and have made changes to the market. To say It's not strictly the intention leaves me to say what was the main reason upgrades got implemented. 

What? So the primary intention was solely the removal of gold (rather than it being a side effect) and not the introduction of a new tier of items? And you think it was intended for people to have 10+ awakened legendaries, and in some cases (at the time of this post), 40+? Especially when the patch note was:

These items are not meant for everyone to be able to obtain, nor are they something people are supposed to amass.  They are for the few people that want to upgrade specific legendary items they have grown attached to.

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I personally see it being a rich tax 1st not so people can have better items... You needed to give the players something for paying so much otherwise its just a tax with no benefit.  

I get the strong feeling you've never paid taxes before in your life. Taxes are required contributions. Players opt into paying the cost of an upgrade, but it's a tax instead of just the cost of the upgrade? Players that are otherwise "rich" but not interested in upgrades do not have to pay anything (again, while taxes are required contributions).

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But if few people want items at a given price and would only pay less for it, how is it possible that this is not the community dictating the price? This seems to lend credence to that idea. In the end, eople don't want to pay the now-inflated prices of these common and non-optimal items.

No, I agree on people make their own prices and trade according. For how they trade, If they trade and what they trade is on the devs. You will be the last person to decide what you will pay and sell for but Its the devs that control how those items came to be. 

Just 1 example, other than upgrades. The devs made the Legendary item week. They could see it would have an effect on the market before making the event. 

Sure, that final decision is influenced (not controlled) by stats, rarity, skins, etc, but in the end, it's decided by the person who wants the item.

Maybe we just aren't totalitarian dictators that want to set fixed prices for every item in a game where people's trading experience is often such a huge part of their fun....

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It's clear you didn't search!

This is factually untrue and you know it. All it means is I found the 1st one and didn't go much past it as I didn't think It was necessary given I didn't claim I was the 1st that wanted it.

First, you are trying to take one sentence out of context. Again, you bring up the idea of "uncrafting" from 2016, and if you had searched for "uncrafting" you would have found a thread from 2015 that's titled (cue suspenseful music) "Uncrafting." Either you misrepresented the course of events again, or you didn't understand the entire point:

We both have the same tool called "Search".

This is a thread from January 8, 2015. Though, I searched for "salvaging" as "uncrafting" is not a word ("quite unnormal"), but searching for "uncrafting" will show this thread too. It's clear you didn't search!

And second, hilariously: you expected me to scroll down a list of many search results for a thread about "gold sinks" titled "Hero+." Yet you are not expected to find a search result about "uncrafting" that is literally titled "Uncrafting" (which is the same as the search term). How hypocritical.

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"I did put light on that subject"

You did it again: I pointed out your misused phrase, and you give evidence that you butchered the idiom. You would know this if you would step away from games and read.

Yet again, another Woody-level malapropism ("pull yourself together," amusingly Googling for "put yourself together" even corrects itself to this).

I wasn't asking you for a definition. I put "intelligent guess" in quotes because in English parlance, the phrase is "educated guess." This is further shown by your own screenshot of the definition for the phrase "educated (and not intelligent) guess." I GUESS you didn't pick up on that (get it?).

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Because, yet again, for the most part, orange legendaries are superseded by red legendaries

They are better In stats but usability is another question. Hell for this argument All heroes (Dur) should be less than 1 heroes (Legacy). 

More usability = less normal stats

"Like Ags and Vgs are technically better then Legacy and Dur in usability just no one uses it how it was intended to be used."

For how much Tempest is better than Ullrs for being 1 hero? The same difference applies when you talk about going to F-bow from Ullrs. Going from Orange to (Red) All heroes to (Red) 1 hero is normally the same stats differences at the cost of usability.

Is the gap from Tempest to Ullrs any smaller than Ullrs to F-bow? 

How many logical fallacies can you fit into this thread? This was the original conversation:

How are Reds worth more than Oranges. See above for my reasoning.

Because, yet again, for the most part, orange legendaries are superseded by red legendaries:

So you want to refute the point that orange legendaries are worth less than red legendaries by comparing usability of two red legendaries. That's just fantastic.

But anyway, here you go: Tempest to Ullrs Bane is not an apples-to-apples comparison. The number of classes that can equip an item is a pointless figure if the distribution of the actual players spec'ing each possible hero is not equal (and it's not): traditionally, Warden was more spec'ed than the other three Archer heroes combined. So you are comparing the best bow for suboptimal and unpopular classes to the best bow for the optimal and the most widely-played class. Furthermore, this is ignoring the fact that Tempest was introduced years after Ullrs Bane. At least compare something like Onyx Bolts and Rending Bolts, where (unlike Warden and Archers) Chosen Marksman never dwarfed the other three Crossbowman heroes.

But anyway, yes, orange items are replaced by red items. And don't bother with some bullshit like there being no red version of Severance because there's no exact red item that is usable by both Legionnaire and Pikeman hero that is a throwing axe. This should not have be spoonfed to anybody: the replacement does not have to be a 1:1 correspondence. If you are a Legionnaire, Malice and Glory are better. If you are a Pikeman hero, Volcanic Daggers and Twigs are better. Severance is obsolete.

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I see them as just about the same as reds already just with a buff none uses. 

And if few players choose that alleged "buff," then it doesn't have much utility nor value. They are budget (and that's my nice way of saying "bad") items in a mature mod with many copies of the best items available. Don't settle for less unless you're a player that has only played something like 3 months. You will never impose your "b-b-but, it can be used by more classes, so it should be worth more!" mentality on me and many others because we see the truth that it's a dumb argument.

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The progression and antiquation of items is a feature, not a bug, of online RPGs.

ehhh to a player perspective I would agree. You and I see most If not all craftables as "peasant items" but to say the full community should see half of the items in this game as obsolete... My B idea is simple and I don't think It would be that much work to implement. With very simple idea's this does not need to be the case. 

I'm starting to think Light blues could have the same or similar work done to them. Making them usable by all or t3 sounds fun but not sure If I would do much more. You could make all the light blue stuff hero locked (dark blue) then buff the green stuff but that's a mess. You can make some links between Light blues to Dark blues and Oranges to Reds.

I don't believe I ever called them "peasant items" or anything to that effect. In my viewpoint, it's bad for the community to unload items that won't hold their value to get gold out of new players, when those new players should be using their gold to get better items that will last longer for them. Instead, I advise players to only craft and acquire house crafted items that are used in recipes of awakened legendaries, so the player doesn't take too much of a loss if or when they get better gear.

As for calling the items obsolete: well, they are. And that's not me imposing my viewpoint on others, it's a viewpoint that many people independently conclude. If orange legendaries and light blue items were usable by Tier 3 characters, I would still consider them to be bad and not advise anyone from acquiring the vast majority of them outside looting. What happens when that player gets to Hero? Congratulations, you're a Hero equipped with something that has been replaced. Good job!

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The concept of increasing by a multiplicative factor of two is misleading. This thread is filled with some great gems. Perfect 5/7.

"is a bit misleading is it not?"

If any company came out and said ye this has 2x the performance/warranty/etc.. without giving the context of what 2x really the company Is normally trying to mislead the public to think of a greater number normally. This is marketing 101 for Apple saying this iPhone is 2x better than the last one. It can be factually true but still misleading without context.  

The difference here is Winter is not selling me anything (at least not yet). This is hence why I said, "just a fun fact as it doesn't really say much on the topic.".

No, we already knew the chances are low, and that devs are not willing to reveal exact figures. And that kind of marketing only works because the median person has such a bad grasp of math and logic.