suggestions for Ranger/Halb and Jugg

[Forward]

I guess I can give all Pikeman classes, with the exception of Master Peltast, Aventurier, all archer classes with the exception of Warden extra health when they are in melee mode. Legionnaire would be subject to these changes as well. I guess some kind of cooldown between switching modes could be applied as well to prevent abuse 'n stuff.

As for increasing the health of Juggernaut, maybe. I have been doing some experimenting the last few days and noticed how easy it still is to die as an melee oriented class. As I am all about players having their own play styles I would be up to increase the capabilities of a Juggernaut. Not sure if this is already the case, but once the extra health bar is hit we could make the character immune to stuns (maybe in the form of a warcry), thus opening another play style where a character is able to engage in open combat. I also had an idea where multiple Juggernauts on the field would give small bonuses to the other Juggernauts, kinda like a wolfpack (with a dentist, a dadsboy, an asian, etc...)

As for damage reduction Ranger already has damage reduction on the Gilded Bear Armour, perhaps we could apply it to the craftable ranger armours as well, if we haven't already (sorry for not doing my research). Not really sure about Halbedier, or any Pikeman classes in general, I guess that is still open for discussion.

Hopefully this will give the retarded, and off-topic, discussion in this thread an EOL.

My ideas were more about NI 2 in Bannerlord if its happens ever. Changing current class balance might make it even worse then now.

Better to admit that some classes are not working and live with it then trying to fix that with clutches and broke more. Whole new class design, that's what I'm saying.

[Kaasovic]

Do you mean hoplite or Mara becuse avent is the 1h hero on xbow.

I have no idea to what part of my post this applies, sorry.

[...]
immune to stuns could be a ranger/halb/jugg thing. But maybe you can make it chance related with jugg having the lowest chance.

I don't really think it fits ranger as I don't see the primary use of ranger is to melee enemy bots.

"Wolfpack" if the buff is not op like the idea. 

I would be small buffs, but noticeable. For example health, damage, speed can all be increased. Kinda how Napoleonic Wars has the drummer, pipers, fifres, etc.

damage reduction the ranger armour has it. The request is to give part of the "buff" to each part of the set. There's no reason why the body armour gets 100% of the buff. Leather gloves were bugged once and had1% on them so i know it can be done.

That leather gloves had 1% was a bug about a register being overwritten and yeah, it's not that hard to split them up;
all I need to do is add another line. (Checking this I noticed that a couple of awakened items do not have the buff yet D

---

My ideas were more about NI 2 in Bannerlord if its happens ever. Changing current class balance might make it even worse then now.

Better to admit that some classes are not working and live with it then trying to fix that with clutches and broke more. Whole new class design, that's what I'm saying.

I don't really think that there are classes that are not working. I think with our selection of hero's, the majority can pick a hero that they feel happy with. This game isn't all about the same boring tactic and I love to see people being creative.

As far as I know work was being done behind the scenes about hero's in general with a massive impact, but I will not disclose it yet and I have no clue what the status is.

[Winter]

"You can be a wampire, if you really want to."

What does this reference? I searched the forum and only found this post, and then googled, and didn't find anything.

Sorry, I probably shouldn't have posted that reference.  It is from ESO, where a popular player who makes lots of guides for new players to introduce them to some endgame concepts says that you can play as a vampire if you really want to, implying it isn't necessary.  However, for actual endgame, you definitely want to be a vampire to be most effective.  To summarize the trade offs, it has the benefit of damage resistance and higher resource regeneration and negatives that have little to no impact on combat, just make your character a little pale and ugly, so lots of "casual" players tend not to go vampire for aesthetics or RP reasons.

The meme is that you definitely should be a vampire as there are many positives and no significant negatives in gameplay (and you can remove them situationally at any time), but he presents it as an option anyways because you don't always have to be optimal to have fun in a game.  Also he says it with a funny accent.

I view Forward's argument in a similar way - many of the classes are not optimal, but some people enjoy playing them for different reasons, so it is worth having them as options, just like being a vampire is an option and you can get by without it, you just won't have optimal stats.

[Malong]

I view Forward's argument in a similar way - many of the classes are not optimal, but some people enjoy playing them for different reasons, so it is worth having them as options, just like being a vampire is an option and you can get by without it, you just won't have optimal stats.

I agree with that stance. But in my view it's a big double standard for someone to pick the class claiming they want it for fun and enjoyment instead of maximum efficiency (which these people often claim they don't care about), and then turn around and ask for buffs to that class so it can be more competitive (again when they claimed they didn't care about it in the first place). At this point of the game, people know what they are signing up for when they train those classes.

[DR.]

Do you mean hoplite or Mara becuse avent is the 1h hero on xbow.

I have no idea to what part of my post this applies, sorry.

Looks like you said avent was a pike hero.

I guess I can give all Pikeman classes, with the exception of Master Peltast, Aventurier, ..
extra health when they are in melee mode.

I would give leg, mara, hoplite, senti, sentry and avent extra HP but only when they are not using ranged.

Rg, zwei, jugg, halb and ranger have it all the time.

[...]
immune to stuns could be a ranger/halb/jugg thing. But maybe you can make it chance related with jugg having the lowest chance.

I don't really think it fits ranger as I don't see the primary use of ranger is to melee enemy bots.

As suggested in my stats thread some time ago I think ranger and halb could have better than AVG skills like jugg.

Ranger having 170/160 in 2h/1h

Halb having 200 in polearm

Maybe that idea can be only used when they are not in ranged.

"Wolfpack" if the buff is not op like the idea. 

I would be small buffs, but noticeable. For example health, damage, speed can all be increased. Kinda how Napoleonic Wars has the drummer, pipers, fifres, etc.

I've been thinking a fun event would be using only juggs on hard with heals/tomes and no cades. With that idea it may be posable as before I was not sure if we could do waves like 11 unless we shield wall.

damage reduction the ranger armour has it. The request is to give part of the "buff" to each part of the set. There's no reason why the body armour gets 100% of the buff. Leather gloves were bugged once and had1% on them so i know it can be done.

That leather gloves had 1% was a bug about a register being overwritten and yeah, it's not that hard to split them up;
all I need to do is add another line. (Checking this I noticed that a couple of awakened items do not have the buff yet D

 It's bit off topic but I've ask for my upgraded def armour to get more than 15%. Given part of the upgrade it takes away weight I would be willing to trade that buff for more damage reduction. For how much idk.  If each part of def had some it would give people a reason to want to have a upgraded set not just the body.

Jugg boots are worth less atm just about but if it had some of the buff hopefully the people that loot in the further would be less salty if that's possible.

[/quote]

I view Forward's argument in a similar way - many of the classes are not optimal, but some people enjoy playing them for different reasons, so it is worth having them as options, just like being a vampire is an option and you can get by without it, you just won't have optimal stats.

I agree with that stance. But in my view it's a big double standard for someone to pick the class claiming they want it for fun and enjoyment instead of maximum efficiency (which these people often claim they don't care about), and then turn around and ask for buffs to that class so it can be more competitive (again when they claimed they didn't care about it in the first place). At this point of the game, people know what they are signing up for when they train those classes.

I would agree sentry is more fun than warden like how I would agree warden is more "optimal". I don't get how if a class is said to be more fun it doesn't need a buff.

I would not even use the word fun for sentry and other classes altho it be easier. How I'm going to explain it I would use the word boring for warden and heros like that tho. Sentry and other heros like it are more of a Swiss army knife when warden/mp feel mundane. It's not more fun it just has more options so you get bored slower. The tank classes even feel more "fun" as it feels more different. Having more armour allows you to take bigger risks so ofc it would be more "fun" even if the buff was smaller than it is ATM. 

Your point realise on the "some" people as well. Many people play one of the classes we have talked about because they saw the idea of the hero and liked it better. Mara is arguably one of the heros that could of been with sentry etc. Only difference is mara has stats that make it worth having less armour than inf yet being not a ranged hero. Sentry has not as good armour and the weapons are a bit meh just as the one example when I could give lots.

The idea for sentry is grate but in practice its 2h skill is either lacking or warden with its skill is to good or it needs help in a different way. Like I said warden will always be the most picked sniper hero for the soul reason snipers uses bows 99% of the time. In saying this even if ranger had the armour of inf maybe even jugg people would still pick warden for dps.

My question to you at what point would you think about making a sniper hero that's not warden? For some people it's a joke "warden" is the only sniper hero worth going. They are right and it's sad. It should be a hard desision. ATM inf then xbow is the hardest to pick from but it's still could be a lot better. Leg vs zwei or jugg take your pick.

I've made most of my heros as playing the same hero each wave feels fucked. I injoy heros like sentry more but the meta favers any hero thats for ranged weapons. Yes even with good buffs I expect the 1st hero you go to be heros like that but after that list of warden,mp, cm.. in time 750k is not that big of a hit to your value. 750k gold for a new hero is not even 1% of a good amount of people's values yet some of them only have a handful of classes they ever plain to make. Making heros just to use skills that are meh is what people do ATM just to try to get away from the warden train.

Ranger was my 2nd or 3rd hero so this list is for the resons why over warden.
-warden did not have bows and arrows yet
-with ping the fire rate feels almost the same
-its always good to be a tank class as maybe you can live longer getting more loot
-the armour I saw back in 2014 for ranger was so cool yet being so cheap. Sad it looks like shit now it use to look more special.
-going a hero almost noone had picked at the time felt special.


I hope someone making ranger in half a year the reasons are better.

[Malong]

My question to you at what point would you think about making a sniper hero that's not warden? For some people it's a joke "warden" is the only sniper hero worth going. They are right and it's sad. It should be a hard desision.

For me, there is no point at which this would happen. It should be abundantly clear I am a min/maxer, and not a "I picked Sentry/Sentinel/Ranger before it was cool" hipster douchebag. Not that this is the only reason to pick those three classes, but you know.

It should be a hard desision.

This is your personal opinion. Looking from a purely logical point of view, aggregate numerical stats dictate what is best. This cannot be argued, and this point of view takes the emotion out of the choice and is optimal, from a literal standpoint.

Ranger was my 2nd or 3rd hero so this list is for the resons why over warden.
-warden did not have bows and arrows yet
-with ping the fire rate feels almost the same
-its always good to be a tank class as maybe you can live longer getting more loot
-the armour I saw back in 2014 for ranger was so cool yet being so cheap. Sad it looks like shit now it use to look more special.
-going a hero almost noone had picked at the time felt special.

There you have it then, five four good reasons (Wardens have their own bows now, though I think they always had bows in the housecrafting line) to go Ranger despite it not being the best archer. So it's settled: there's no need to buff the Ranger class. After all, it's more fun for you and you value this over optimization. And to reiterate (read the bolded parts as one sentence):

[I]n my view it's a big double standard for someone to pick the class claiming they want [a class] for fun and enjoyment instead of maximum efficiency (which these people often claim they don't care about), and then turn around and ask for buffs to that class so it can be more competitive (again when they claimed they didn't care about [optimization] in the first place). At this point of the game, people know what they are signing up for when they train those classes.

[DR.]

My question to you at what point would you think about making a sniper hero that's not warden? For some people it's a joke "warden" is the only sniper hero worth going. They are right and it's sad. It should be a hard desision.

For me, there is no point at which this would happen. It should be abundantly clear I am a min/maxer, and not a "I picked Sentry/Sentinel/Ranger before it was cool" hipster douchebag. Not that this is the only reason to pick those three classes, but you know.

Good so you don't care about the class and others like it. It can and will be buffed so you will have no problem at all.

It should be a hard desision.

This is your personal opinion. Looking from a purely logical point of view, aggregate numerical stats dictate what is best. This cannot be argued, and this point of view takes the emotion out of the choice and is optimal, from a literal standpoint.

opinion that hurts you? Why do you care? You said people like you will never make that class?

Optimal ye so mundane? It's your choice as it's your opinion you are willing to sacrifice having "fun" for max killing things. It's your choice to play Ni but not playing at all that would be at max benefit and 0 pleasure. Do as you want as long as it does not effect me. You and others only playing that type of hero is fine. People like me that like a hero thats good at more than 1 thing are asking for something that may not even effect you at all.

May make you want one of the heros at one point we will see.


Tbh feels like this dose not effect you at all so really why do you care so much. If it makes more people happy why not do it? Giving people more opshions is never bad when the game is over 5 years old. People have been using the same shit for years.
Look at any good competitive game the aim is to make the tools, heros, etc equally what? Viable.



I'm locking this thread as its going slow. The Devs and other can read this but if it keeps on going it will end up in a bigger loop than it already has.