Nord Kill Points (NKP)

[Mythik]

Regardless the last post that I have posted(forgetting completely the what Malong was talkşng about and repeateing the same thing), I beleive that NKP should be applied to the game system.

However, Since the faction point(FP)s are not useful besides starting up a house, I believe the most fair way for everyone(both active, and "less" active), that NKPs should be integrated to the FPs. However, this can only be done by reseting every individuals FPs and also allowing not every material to be accessible from the beginning, but creating a ladder system. I, for example, have 5926 FP( I know that there are players way higher than mine). Although, by doing this, this would allow "everyone" in NI to start from the same point and ascend to higher to levels in order to be able to take a step forward to there goal. Since the main concern is to be fair to everyone, this eliminates the factor of unfairness that was mentioned before caused by "playing more."

Anyway, to be more specific, I wanted to give an example of how much of faction points that you would need to obtain certain good with random numbers(Btw, these are just random numbers to simplify the discussion).
For example,

FP Needed: 1000
Low Tier Craftable Goods
Basic Wood
Rough Cloth
Scrap Metal
Wolf teeth Necklace
Bone Powder
Twisted String
etc.

Faction Points Needed: 3000
Medium Tier Craftable Goods
Coal
Shade Ore
Heavy Cloth
Sturdy Wood
Steel
Hardened Metal

Faction Points Needed: 5000
High Tier Craftable Goods
Eagle Feather
Damascus Steel
Copper Bar
Small Lump of Lead
Water of Hvelgelmir
Zinc Shard
Sulphur
etc.

By considering the fact what Malong has mentioned in this thread with his idea, you have would not have only created a fair ground for every player, but also create an opportunity for normal servers to be more active(either through kiting or pushing a few "veteran" players to make a normal server full with helping the new players to understand NI) in order to increase the amount of FP that the character that they are playing with. I understand that a player with many characters can just reach to the max FPs needed in order to get the high tier materials with one character; but still, since the main concern was to give every player an equal ground, there is your chance. I do not know what the other "veteran" players would think of this idea, but in my opinion, I'm up for it.

Regards,
Mythik

[Sobel]

Regardless the last post that I have posted(forgetting completely the what Malong was talkşng about and repeateing the same thing), I beleive that NKP should be applied to the game system.

However, Since the faction point(FP)s are not useful besides starting up a house, I believe the most fair way for everyone(both active, and "less" active), that NKPs should be integrated to the FPs. However, this can only be done by reseting every individuals FPs and also allowing not every material to be accessible from the beginning, but creating a ladder system. I, for example, have 5926 FP( I know that there are players way higher than mine). Although, by doing this, this would allow "everyone" in NI to start from the same point and ascend to higher to levels in order to be able to take a step forward to there goal. Since the main concern is to be fair to everyone, this eliminates the factor of unfairness that was mentioned before caused by "playing more."

Anyway, to be more specific, I wanted to give an example of how much of faction points that you would need to obtain certain good with random numbers(Btw, these are just random numbers to simplify the discussion).
For example,

FP Needed: 1000
Low Tier Craftable Goods
Basic Wood
Rough Cloth
Scrap Metal
Wolf teeth Necklace
Bone Powder
Twisted String
etc.

Faction Points Needed: 3000
Medium Tier Craftable Goods
Coal
Shade Ore
Heavy Cloth
Sturdy Wood
Steel
Hardened Metal

Faction Points Needed: 5000
High Tier Craftable Goods
Eagle Feather
Damascus Steel
Copper Bar
Small Lump of Lead
Water of Hvelgelmir
Zinc Shard
Sulphur
etc.

By considering the fact what Malong has mentioned in this thread with his idea, you have would not have only created a fair ground for every player, but also create an opportunity for normal servers to be more active(either through kiting or pushing a few "veteran" players to make a normal server full with helping the new players to understand NI) in order to increase the amount of FP that the character that they are playing with. I understand that a player with many characters can just reach to the max FPs needed in order to get the high tier materials with one character; but still, since the main concern was to give every player an equal ground, there is your chance. I do not know what the other "veteran" players would think of this idea, but in my opinion, I'm up for it.

Regards,
Mythik

I think the price for lowtier crafting stuff is by far too high. Grinding 1000 FP's to get 1x twisted string or something sounds pretty useless x)

[Maroon]

So, if I see this correctly, you want to implement NKP, but also have an amount of FP needed before you can use them on certain items? I don't really see how that would add something, aside from the fact that no one can get high end materials for the first 3 months after implementing this system, since everyone's FP would have to reset, like you said yourself.
So I don't really see the point in having a FP requirement.

[Mythik]

So, if I see this correctly, you want to implement NKP, but also have an amount of FP needed before you can use them on certain items? I don't really see how that would add something, aside from the fact that no one can get high end materials for the first 3 months after implementing this system, since everyone's FP would have to reset, like you said yourself.
So I don't really see the point in having a FP requirement.

There's still the random loot system aside of course. So, you still would have the same system that you have right now.

[Hablam]

However, Since the faction point(FP)s are not useful besides starting up a house, I believe the most fair way for everyone(both active, and "less" active), that NKPs should be integrated to the FPs. However, this can only be done by reseting every individuals FPs and also allowing not every material to be accessible from the beginning, but creating a ladder system. I, for example, have 5926 FP( I know that there are players way higher than mine). Although, by doing this, this would allow "everyone" in NI to start from the same point and ascend to higher to levels in order to be able to take a step forward to there goal. Since the main concern is to be fair to everyone, this eliminates the factor of unfairness that was mentioned before caused by "playing more."

If you haven't noticed, for most of the quest(which you need to get FP) you need to kill a certain amount of enemys, so how is that fair for a shielder/medic? he is killing less -> so he is completing less quest -> so he is disadvantaged = no fair anymore

[Mythik]

[quote author=Mythil & Mythik link=topic=20410.msg155645#msg155645 date=1387032126]
However, Since the faction point(FP)s are not useful besides starting up a house, I believe the most fair way for everyone(both active, and "less" active), that NKPs should be integrated to the FPs. However, this can only be done by reseting every individuals FPs and also allowing not every material to be accessible from the beginning, but creating a ladder system. I, for example, have 5926 FP( I know that there are players way higher than mine). Although, by doing this, this would allow "everyone" in NI to start from the same point and ascend to higher to levels in order to be able to take a step forward to there goal. Since the main concern is to be fair to everyone, this eliminates the factor of unfairness that was mentioned before caused by "playing more."

If you haven't noticed, for most of the quest(which you need to get FP) you need to kill a certain amount of enemys, so how is that fair for a shielder/medic? he is killing less -> so he is completing less quest -> so he is disadvantaged = no fair anymore
[/quote]

First of all, being sort of off topic= being a medic is completely questionable. I can be a medic with my main character, Mythik, as well. That does not mean you will be a medic every run that is made. It is just a matter of choice and no one can force you towards that. Then, what about the players that don't do anything during a run? Should they be considered in the discussion as well. The issue of fairness is completely debatable.

As for the shielders, there is nothing that stops them from going into a normal server and making their way up through the certain waves by themselves in normal mode. For a new player, in my opinion, brings up the chance to branch out in their characters for every circumstance that they encounter. I don't know why there's so much of an issue "ohh shielders don't get to kill or do anything." Well, I agree with that situation. Although it always comes down to the shielders, doesn't it. Not forgetting that if you want to move forward through the waves, you do need shielders, but what about the ranged? They deal with the difficulty of getting their heads popped any second when they peek with a simple mistake that they make when the "shielders" just literally not do anything. In the end, you might argue that shielders don't get to have any kills, but I don't think that it is even an argument.

However, since you were not specific, I'm guessing that you are talking about Hard and Ragnarok Mode. But most of the quests that give FPs are already on normal mode, (Peasant Envy, Serf's up, Collecting Heads, etc.)  which can be easily done by any character. But if anyone thinks it's too much of an hustle, they can always start a ranged character for things to be done more easily. But we all know that almost no one in this discussion has "a" character. 

[Maroon]

[quote author=Maroon link=topic=20410.msg155654#msg155654 date=1387034601]
So, if I see this correctly, you want to implement NKP, but also have an amount of FP needed before you can use them on certain items? I don't really see how that would add something, aside from the fact that no one can get high end materials for the first 3 months after implementing this system, since everyone's FP would have to reset, like you said yourself.
So I don't really see the point in having a FP requirement.

There's still the random loot system aside of course. So, you still would have the same system that you have right now.
[/quote]

Still, what would be the point of posponing the new system, next to the old one? I mean, as soon as you get to a certain amount of FP, you get access to the NKP system, within a certain degree (lower-end mats first). So you grind your way to, say, 5000 FP (which is a pain in the ass to get btw, my main has 2034 FP after 1.5 years), and when you get there, you get the system, no questions asked.
The only thing this would change (from my point of view) is that the more active players would get to the system first, thus get an advantage over those who don't have that amount of FP yet, which is the exact opposite of what k4mi stated earlier.

[Mythik]

[quote author=Mythil & Mythik link=topic=20410.msg155657#msg155657 date=1387034897]
[quote author=Maroon link=topic=20410.msg155654#msg155654 date=1387034601]
So, if I see this correctly, you want to implement NKP, but also have an amount of FP needed before you can use them on certain items? I don't really see how that would add something, aside from the fact that no one can get high end materials for the first 3 months after implementing this system, since everyone's FP would have to reset, like you said yourself.
So I don't really see the point in having a FP requirement.

There's still the random loot system aside of course. So, you still would have the same system that you have right now.
[/quote]

Still, what would be the point of posponing the new system, next to the old one? I mean, as soon as you get to a certain amount of FP, you get access to the NKP system, within a certain degree (lower-end mats first). So you grind your way to, say, 5000 FP (which is a pain in the ass to get btw, my main has 2034 FP after 1.5 years), and when you get there, you get the system, no questions asked.
The only thing this would change (from my point of view) is that the more active players would get to the system first, thus get an advantage over those who don't have that amount of FP yet, which is the exact opposite of what k4mi stated earlier.
[/quote]

To sum it up, I pretty much see it as earning your way up with your gameplay. I also never mentioned about my perspective of what k4mi has mentioned about being fair among players. So making an assumption based on that is just meaningless. I have told that I support the NKP idea and that's pretty much about it.

Anyway, in my opinion, this just gives players an equal position for everyone in the race of gaining more goods for their goals with the "veteran" players and as much as the new ones. If they can't or won't be active as some players, well, it's their loss. They'll just have a slower process regarding their FPs. It's up to them whether they do it or not. Furthermore, do not forget of the effects of this system to the economy of this community. How will this system have an impact on the prices of the materials? Will the players that have reached the highest tier of crafting material use every material that they get their hands on, or will they sell it? And, so on.

Like I said, this idea must be thought in a very, very thorough manner. However, in the opinion, it would be fair for everyone if we even want to discuss of an system change or rather an addition to a system.  If you want to have more, you have do more. So, by doing this, it would eliminate all the "unfairness" among players that has been mentioned before. No ones talking about a drawback. This is simply a fresh start. You want a new system, there your chance. If anyone's that has commented on about implementing a new system to the loot process, I personally don't think you have the chance to whine about. I personally don't mind a new challenge in this mod.

Also, I only stated my idea about regarding this discussion. This does not mean it has to be that way. Also, the numbers that I have given was just for simplify the whole idea. The mean of the FPs can always be figured out and, therefore, the numbers can(most likely will be) way more less. 

So much for summing it up...

[Slayer]

its a good idea Mythik I suppose but you cant just keep grinding faction points on normal if you're a shielder because majority of the quests are only available once per week.

[Maroon]

I'm sorry if my posts gave you the idea I was being aggresive towards you; that was not intended.
Like you, I'd like to see the NKP system, and I also disagree with k4mi's post about unfairness, but the only thing I don't understand is the reason why there should be a FP based requirement for the new system.
If I'm interpretating your posts correctly, you want to use FP in order to give all players an equal start before NKP system would be entered in the game. Then, when players reach a certain FP amount, they can use the NKP they accumulated on materials unlocked by that FP amount. However, since the NKP system introduces an entire new point system, everyone would start out with 0 NKP anyways, right? So people would already have a fresh start in regard to this new system, becaause everyone starts out with 0 NKP.