My thoughts on a lack of mid-level priced one handers for commandos

[synario]

Not to alarm anybody, I'm still just brain-storming and bouncing ideas off people. So to rip loose:

Would a short, thrusting spear (think spartans, a 5-6 foot long spear, very easily used in one-hand while holding a shield in the other) be a viable one hander? I'm guessing some people would object to this, considering it is a spear would it fall between the polearm or one-handed category? To make it a valid one-hander, it'd need to be short enough, and more importantly it has to be fast to make it viable.

[Image: 312px-Two_hoplites.jpg]

This isn't a fully-serious suggestion, just bouncing ideas off people here.

[Suns]

Not to alarm anybody, I'm still just brain-storming and bouncing ideas off people. So to rip loose:

Would a short, thrusting spear (think spartans, a 5-6 foot long spear, very easily used in one-hand while holding a shield in the other) be a viable one hander? I'm guessing some people would object to this, considering it is a spear would it fall between the polearm or one-handed category? To make it a valid one-hander, it'd need to be short enough, and more importantly it has to be fast to make it viable.

[Image: 312px-Two_hoplites.jpg]

This isn't a fully-serious suggestion, just bouncing ideas off people here.

Classified as a polearm... Skirms could wield a spear with a shield as shown in the pic. Spears aren't easy to use in combat with a shield as the current animation is slow. (Speaking about the upper stab animation, its slower than the regular thrust).

[synario]

@suns: good point..a spear, even if its very fast and very short, still probably isn't a viable weapon considering it's meant to be used in a phalanx formation.

[Mr.Peso]

Not to alarm anybody, I'm still just brain-storming and bouncing ideas off people. So to rip loose:

Would a short, thrusting spear (think spartans, a 5-6 foot long spear, very easily used in one-hand while holding a shield in the other) be a viable one hander? I'm guessing some people would object to this, considering it is a spear would it fall between the polearm or one-handed category? To make it a valid one-hander, it'd need to be short enough, and more importantly it has to be fast to make it viable.

[Image: 312px-Two_hoplites.jpg]

This isn't a fully-serious suggestion, just bouncing ideas off people here.

Spears get around 30% damage and speed reduction when being used one handed. Given this fact a spear would have to be extremely op while being used without a shield to be any viable used in hoplite mode. Other than that spears use pole wpf in one handed mode. All in all I don't see any useful side of a short and fast spear to be used in 1H mode (for a Legionnaire at least).

[synario]

Well, to change topic to a different weapon, is a one-handed hammer weapon plausible, in the mid-tier range? I personally hate the headcrusher. How long could you make a one-handed blunt weapon while still being realistic? If it's too heavy/long, then obviously it's not a feasible weapon. If it's too short, then it's going to be too similar to the headcrusher.

If you make a pick (pierce) weapon, we'll need to significantly differentiate it from the DWP, obviously.

A mace/morningstar might be a feasible option.

For reference, here is the headcrusher:

Weight: 4.0
Speed Rating: 100
Weapon Reach: 59
Swing Damage: 40b
Strength Required: 1
Obtainable Through: Crafting - Blacksmith level 14
- Can Knock Down

Here's the heavy war hammer:

Weight: 9.5
Speed Rating: 82
Weapon Reach: 88
Swing Damage: 50b
Strength Required: 11
Obtainable Through: Crafting - Alchemist level 18
- Can Crush Through Blocks
- Can Knockdown
- Unbalanced

[Mr.Peso]

Well, to change topic to a different weapon, is a one-handed hammer weapon plausible, in the mid-tier range? I personally hate the headcrusher. How long could you make a one-handed blunt weapon while still being realistic? If it's too heavy/long, then obviously it's not a feasible weapon. If it's too short, then it's going to be too similar to the headcrusher.

If you make a pick (pierce) weapon, we'll need to significantly differentiate it from the DWP, obviously.

Lenght should be in range of 70-85 max if it's a blunt/pierce weapon. The point of a one hander, at least to me, is not lenght but speed and easy handling in clumsy situations. Some lenght is nice to stunlock bot's, though. The longer 1H seem pointless to me since you just get stuck to easy or bounce at other bots/walls/friendlies etc.

[Tsukiyomi]

I have to agree with Midren.  While it is an interesting idea I think it would make current craftables a bit pointless.  There are plenty of mid-level one handed weapons.  Swadian hope, heroes hope, heroes despair, etc.  All of these are a bit more expensive than the 800k range but to be honest they are pretty mid range as far as stats go.  Compare a steel cutter (in your view an "entry level" weapon) against the Swadian hope (a "high tier" crafted weapon):

Steel Cutter

Weight: 1.5
Speed Rating: 105
Weapon Reach: 89
Swing Damage: 48c
Strength Required: 7

crafting mats

30 x Blade Shard
5 x Handle
2 x Bone Dust
5 x Oil
3 x Quality Charcoal
2 x Quality Grindstone

Swadian Hope

Weight: 1.5
Speed Rating: 101
Weapon Reach: 103
Swing Damage: 48c
Thrust Damage: 32p
Strength Required: 7

crafting mats

50 x Blade Shard
10 x Handle
5 x Small Gold Bar
15 x Oil
5 x Silk
10 x Quality Charcoal
5 x Quality Grindstone

As you can see these weapons are the same damage and have a fairly similar speed with the hope being a bit slower.  The only real advantage is the length increase while the crafting cost is quite a bit different.  I'm a bit lost as to how you would balance a weapon to make it better than something like the steel cutter while keeping it worse than the Swadian Hope while also reducing the crafting cost by over half.  As I said, I'm not opposed to new weapons, I'm just a bit lost on how to balance them without making a more expensive item useless.

*edit*  After having read some of the comments posted while writing this, I agree that a different category of weapon could be added.  A crafted 1h blunt weapon other than the head crusher could be interesting, as well as a craftable pick or other type of pierce weapon (similar to the DWP but worse).  My only concern is that this would also make many of the nice crafted 1h's currently available a bit less desirable, kind of like what the DWP does to most of the other legendary (and crafted) 1 handers.

[synario]

@Susanoo: You make a very good point. The swadian courage is the same damage as the steel cutter, yet costs 1.7m more gold. That leaves very little flexibility, if any, for a mid-tier weapon without totally making several of the higher-tier one handers completely irrelevant.

However, I don't think it's impossible, especially if we are designing an upgraded version of the head crusher, for example.

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[Tsukiyomi]

I feel that for this idea to be properly implemented it would have to be in the direction of blunt or pierce weapons.  Perhaps a one handed mace/club type weapon without quite the damage/knockdown of the head crusher, but with a bit more length to compensate.  This would allow for a few more options when crafting oneself a nice weapon.  I personally love swords but not everyone shares that opinion.  I'm sure that given the option many people would choose to craft themselves an awesome mace or other type of blunt/pierce one hander.   

[synario]

Here is the headcrusher:
Weight: 4.0
Speed Rating: 100
Weapon Reach: 59
Swing Damage: 40b
Strength Required: 1
Obtainable Through: Crafting - Blacksmith level 14
- Can Knock Down

An upgraded version might be at least 85-89 length, not sure, similar speed though. The swing damage is a point of contention considering the heavy war hammer is 50b. So we can't come too close. 45b is the first number off the top of my head, though I'm not sure if that's overpowered or not.