The Infantry Problem 2

[TerrorBite]

Xbow is not a shielding class I would say it's more to bring in a shield for Inf? An argument could be made to lock the Reinforced Kite Shield, Swadian Half-Board Shield, Tower Shield to Pc as they probs the only Hero that is using them just about. 


Altho this has been tried in the past and did not work but it's been about a year or 2 so never know what the dev's think now.

I mean, it's just not worth to craft RSKS becouse there are other better items for this price (design of this shield is awesome tho).
Defender>Aegis>Tower (there is nothing worth about 1-1.5m for PC only, gap between shields is huge).

Argh this isn't infantry issue based. Should be in feature requests instead or something? idk
just afraid this will go off on a tangent for another few pages

[Sir Baron]

Rezev did you not quite the game several months back?
Why are even here?

[DR.]

Xbow is not a shielding class I would say it's more to bring in a shield for Inf? An argument could be made to lock the Reinforced Kite Shield, Swadian Half-Board Shield, Tower Shield to Pc as they probs the only Hero that is using them just about. 


Altho this has been tried in the past and did not work but it's been about a year or 2 so never know what the dev's think now.

I mean, it's just not worth to craft RSKS becouse there are other better items for this price (design of this shield is awesome tho).
Defender>Aegis>Tower (there is nothing worth about 1-1.5m for PC only, gap between shields is huge).

You want the stats of a 1 hero locked item yet it's for 3 others atm as well. That's why stats are "fair" atm. 

Tower Shield is atm 1450 45 and all heroes for xbow if it was Pc eg I could see it at 1600 50. 



Edit it vs sok would be strange then.. mm maybe make Sok for Rg's and Tower for Pc with Stats that are almost the same.

[TerrorBite]

(...)
What I think is a better solution to the infantry "problem" is to mitigate damage received from bots on harder difficulties.

This sounds clean, probably easy if you suggested it, and potentially a good balance in my eyes. 
But i do wonder: 

Would it be 'infantry tree only' specific, keeping in mind hybrids
Would it work with crush through
Would it apply to shield

Essentially how would it differ from the jug bonus besides the game mode specificity?

[Kaasovic]

I don't see an issue with something being posted a couple of times, but I am just trying to say that all of these options should be taken in account, not just an HP buff

"and for the record no one has had any arguments for or against extra hp iirc. So should I drop the idea because it has been essentially unnoticed?"

I missed your suggestion because it was only mentioned once(?) and was not discussed either?

Of course if shouldn't be dropped. I'll just say it again; all options should be considered. It seems to me that the main discussion keeps coming back to the HP buff, therefor I'm stating my observations.

What I as trying to say is in a perfect NI every class has to uses

If you mean that all classed need [two] uses I'd like to know why and what those uses would be.
I play how I want and would certainly not be limited to only having two options.

(...)
Infantry have the best chance at being able to win a last ditch scramble
The have the best chance of staying alive after getting tomed in next to a bunch of nords

I agree with this, but it usually ends bad.

Also I know there are more whys of helping Infantry then a plain buff and that's what I want
If you just buff Infantry's armor or HP then other classes will start to think they are under powered and it would lead to more buffs until the nords are the only under powered thing here

Other classes should not worry about dying in combat easily since they have access to ranged weaponry.

[Sir Baron]

Maybe VM events work differently but it's almost always the Infantry that stop us from wiping if cades go down

My point is each class has 2 things it's meant for
The only 1 that might not is Archer as the slashing version is only 1 hero and not the whole class
Xbow have Shield and Shoot and so can use both
Infantry have Slash and Shield and so can use both
Pike have Shoot and Slash and so can use both
Archer can Shoot and...
I am missing a second for them but my point is wall cades have removed both of Infantry's uses
Leaving us with "the useless class" because now everyone has walls and you can't really slash or shield with a ton of walls in the gap

NI it's self is not meant so much for open fighting
I think that a limit to walls would cause more people to use Shield walls and so give Infantry a much better spot then "the useless class'

[TerrorBite]

Maybe VM events work differently but it's almost always the Infantry that stop us from wiping if cades go down

My point is each class has 2 things it's meant for
The only 1 that might not is Archer as the slashing version is only 1 hero and not the whole class
Xbow have Shield and Shoot and so can use both
Infantry have Slash and Shield and so can use both
Pike have Shoot and Slash and so can use both
Archer can Shoot and...
I am missing a second for them but my point is wall cades have removed both of Infantry's uses
Leaving us with "the useless class" because now everyone has walls and you can't really slash or shield with a ton of walls in the gap

NI it's self is not meant so much for open fighting
I think that a limit to walls would cause more people to use Shield walls and so give Infantry a much better spot then "the useless class'

With projectiles (everything except inf) you're free to fight exactly how you want and you can do it safely. Even running into the open and fighting isnt so bad when you're fast. With inf to fight freely is no longer long ranged with projectiles but is up close and vulnerable with melee. This often involves being in the open (at least a bit), and with the numbers of nords (and hitting through each other), not getting hit is a little tricky. The thing is on the difficult game modes, open fighting can't be done in the slightlest, leaving only the rigid slashing, shielding, and killing the 1 or 2 which slips past the shielders.

[Kaasovic]

Rezev did you not quite the game several months back?
Why are even here?

Very welcoming to a returning player éh.
This is a public thread and not the place to censor people.

(...)
What I think is a better solution to the infantry "problem" is to mitigate damage received from bots on harder difficulties.

This sounds clean, probably easy if you suggested it, and potentially a good balance in my eyes. 
But i do wonder: 

Would it be 'infantry tree only' specific, keeping in mind hybrids
Would it work with crush through
Would it apply to shield

Essentially how would it differ from the jug bonus besides the game mode specificity?

Hybrids can be taken in account, the detection for this is quite flexible.
Since most of the crush through is custom in this mod, it can easily be edited.
"Would it apply to shield" Not sure what you exactly mean with this.
The system used by Juggernauts can be used for this example as well while still granting an extra amount of damage reduction to juggernauts.

[TerrorBite]

by shields i mean is the oncoming damage reduced (prior to shield damage reduction) or would it only apply to damage which is taken by the player's hp pool specifically.
or just... would it affect shield damage taken?

[Kaasovic]

by shields i mean is the oncoming damage reduced (prior to shield damage reduction) or would it only apply to damage which is taken by the player's hp pool specifically.
or just... would it affect shield damage taken?

It would be limited to the player his health only.
Hits to shields and players are very different in the module source.