The Infantry Problem 2

[Nka19]

And I'm starting to have a feeling SHC can hold on much better than walls atm, cause wall is big and nords can't miss it and due to hp nerf it breaks faster, and since shc is smaller some attacks might miss. So removing or nerfing walls doesn't make that much sense, specially knowing that walls are supposed to be superior due to their price. Yet, people would end up turning to SHC's again if walls aren't a thing anymore, wouldn't solve any problems cause they're as good for kiting or cading.

[Sir Baron]

Nka I get the feeling you missed most of my posts
SHC's have been better then walls for that reason for a few months now and no one has changed
Walls have barely any more HP then them and what they do have does not make up for the size

SHC's can be slashed over much easier then Walls and it's much easier to get a shielding spot with them
People have been ignoring a change as big as half the HP so to me the only way to remove walls dominating runs is to limit them
That will give Infantry the places that they should have and remove the problem of having nothing to do as Infantry

People are willing to admit that that is a problem but don't want to give up there walling off
That is what it will take to fix Infantry and I don't know why you all think a buff will fix it

[Bobo]

Actually, what are the current stats for SHC and Wall?

[Nka19]

Yah makes sense, tho walls are really good for range cover if you use them on prop. And you're right, i can't be bothered to read spam of long posts of this topic, got too much other things to do .

[Sir Baron]

SHC's have 2400
Walls have 3200
Walls are about 3 times as big as SHC's

Walls used to have 6400

[Rezev]

I've got small idea how to make infantry usefull; brand new game mode where players are on huge open space map (no buildings at all) and they have to build base using different cades (platforms and heavy cades would finally find some use), this would be hardcore game mode as medic and ammo boxes would be crucial.
Let's say double-triple longer prep time before wave 1, different waves + maybe cav wave?; as Kaas already said siege wave where bots would focus on cades.
I guess that would be very hard to win but also very fun

[Bobo]

Nice idea, Rezev. It might be very funny. Also extremely easy to implement, we'd just need a proper map.

@Sir Baron: thanks for cades stats. I knew Walls got nerfed but didn't know that much.

[TerrorBite]

Limit Wall cades to 2 so you can't really spam them at all

Terror the only one so far to try bringing any reason not to has yet to try to deny that Wall runs are bad for NI

Also Terror try replying to me and not spouting out nonsense
What you are saying means nothing
And has no response to what I said

And lastly several who I have talked to in TS say Infantry is the funnest of all the classes

uhh for a change to be made there must be a good argument for the change, not a weak argument against it. I'm not going to look into flaws of 2 wall cades per player because I don't think it will fix the problem.

I'd love if you quoted what nonsense i spouted, for evidence. Especially given i've gone to the effort of quoting your nonsense over 10x, and then you just disappear or move on so you don't have to be accountable for what you said. 
What I say only means nothing because you are too simple to understand it, or you don't bother reading all of it.

I also talked to someone someone in ts and he said he hates crossbowmen and it should be removed! This is the best basis to act on isn't it?

[Sir Baron]

"imagine this: cades didnt exist, inf had 0 armour, 0 power strike, and 0 ath. 
They'd have to be used a lot to get far for shielding only, but they'd also be horrible to use. Just because they'd be used a lot doesn't mean much regarding player experience."


What you say here means nothing because believe it or not Infantry has the most HP and armor of anyone
They are not bad to use other wise I would not be fighting you here
I use Infantry more then anything else because for one shielding takes less thinking then anything else
I also find it more rewarding to melee bots then stand there and shoot
And I like to be able to corner bosses on my own

Also you keep reading only half my post Terror

I will spell it out plain and simple
Each class has positions they are meant to play
Xbow is shielder and shooter
Pike is Slasher and shooter
Archer is just shooter as far as I can tell
Infantry is shielder and slasher

Now with wall cades being used more and more there became less and less runs that will bother with shielders
Now on most maps to have a slasher there needs to be shielders and that goes even more for Infantry then Pike
Now if you had to be careful how you used walls you would be more likely to cade for shielders and thus remove Infantry being worthless
Infantry never had a problem before walls became a huge thing and what little they might have had back in the day has been fixed
A limit to them would help a ton

Edit. Forgot that part about leaving but
Sorry for going to bed and getting up after others have posted too

[Winter]

"imagine this: cades didnt exist, inf had 0 armour, 0 power strike, and 0 ath. 
They'd have to be used a lot to get far for shielding only, but they'd also be horrible to use. Just because they'd be used a lot doesn't mean much regarding player experience."


What you say here means nothing because believe it or not Infantry has the most HP and armor of anyone

It is a hypothetical situation (see "imagine this") meant to prove a point: just because a class is necessary to win does not mean it is an engaging or good class to play. TerrorBite is, of course, aware that infantry has the most HP and armor.

They are not bad to use other wise I would not be fighting you here
I use Infantry more then anything else because for one shielding takes less thinking then anything else
I also find it more rewarding to melee bots then stand there and shoot
And I like to be able to corner bosses on my own

These are your reasons for enjoying infantry. I'm sure others could say they enjoy shooting bots from far away over melee. The part about shielding taking less thinking could easily relate to TerrorBite's point - shielding is mindless and boring and does not necessarily contribute to player enjoyment. I wonder if classes like Legionnaire (no throwing skill -> bad throwing skill -> current throwing skill), Ranger, Halberdier, and countless other classes should never have received buffs because there were people that enjoyed them as they were. I hope that doesn't become the new gold standard for deciding if a class gets buffs to its stats, equipment, or equipment accessible.

Now with wall cades being used more and more there became less and less runs that will bother with shielders
Now on most maps to have a slasher there needs to be shielders and that goes even more for Infantry then Pike
Now if you had to be careful how you used walls you would be more likely to cade for shielders and thus remove Infantry being worthless
Infantry never had a problem before walls became a huge thing and what little they might have had back in the day has been fixed
A limit to them would help a ton

SHC's have been better then walls for that reason for a few months now and no one has changed
Walls have barely any more HP then them and what they do have does not make up for the size

SHC's can be slashed over much easier then Walls and it's much easier to get a shielding spot with them
People have been ignoring a change as big as half the HP so to me the only way to remove walls dominating runs is to limit them
That will give Infantry the places that they should have and remove the problem of having nothing to do as Infantry

So if Wall Barricades are removed/limited, why wouldn't people just wall off with the "better" Short Heavy Barricades? To elaborate, before Wall Barricades were even a thing people were still walling off completely with the various barricades. Does the existence of Wall Barricades make it so much easier that is has become mainstream or is it more to do with the ranged classes getting so strong that they are more valuable than having that player play on infantry and shield in place of barricades? Do people just enjoy ranged classes more due to infantry not having enough perks? These are important questions to answer before deciding which course of action to take, as modifying Wall Barricades won't do anything if other barricades can take their place and people generally still prefer playing other classes.