1.7.0 Client Release

[DR.]

May I kindly remind you, Woody that you are not the average player in this Mod, nor
are you the only?!

I'm not the only one that can just about solo cav on sniper that group is bigger than you think I guess. It's not about gear as well I have seen/now people that get up to wave 12 using ebony/ebony etc.

No, I don't even think im the best at cav people like Nka, and so much more are a lot better than me... I have only soloed cav once some people have done it idk too much to count. So for them, this update did nothing for them as well for why they don't speak up well why speak up when you are glitching the system just about. (This update was going to make it harder for snipers Yes? well, Its made it easier like I said in points above^^^)

I think there have been enough changes made to destroy kiting already.
The problem of the mod is the 0 loot policy in regard to red mats and that's it.
Kiting is a great element of this game and should still be possible even to victory, at
least on a few maps. Apart from that...all fine! That's how I see the things.

Got no idea in how that relates to the problem. We are talking about cav and you are talking about kiting on normal/hard/rag yes?

[Terath]

So to compensate for the bots being too easy to kill for you on Cavalry mode, I should make all of the bows in the game shoot so it feels like a repeater (sic) or make them more damaging and slower?

Just checking.

Edit:
Then why am I still doing this good?

Ye I can flex on my skills playing a video game fuck I'm cool I need all those internet points I'm hearing about. Or was I trying to show a real point and my skill does not matter in this situation. I would expect better from a dev when I clearly have a point I'm trying to get out... Just for you i will spell it out. The update did not work.

Really I don't care what you do just nerf it... I should not need to tell you this if you tested before and after the update or do you not have the "skill" to test a video game.

In fact, I would say it became even easier as the price of the "max" horse is lower and you don't need as much xp for max cav.  

To add horse armour is a gimmick for any ranged class as (I've been told im not sure my self )it makes you slower and being ranged you are more likely to die before your horse even without armour. - If that's true I'm not sure what you can do there other than make it so you need the armour.

But you did make a point, and I needed clarification. Now that I have it, allow me:

You have a lot of the best gear. This means you would probably fare better than most when it comes to either taking hits or dealing them, as no doubt you either have the best gear (or close to) for Sniper, and that's fine. This doesn't devalue your point however - I'm sure that there are a ton of balance issues accompanied with an update this large and some have yet to even be found. The Cavalry portion of the update was released as more of a baseline for future updates to expand and improve upon it. I would have liked to catch all the balance issues, but they're typically pretty hard to find in testing as some issues just start to realize over a period of time rather than right away (ala red mats). I hope its understood that sometimes it takes time for issues to come out of the woodworks. Rest assured, I'll look into it. So thank you for reporting your experience. It really does help me see the mode from a different light and it helps me see problems that I couldn't see before.

The fastest horse (t4 no armour) should still be slower than old Courser. I saw being able to choose your own horse armour as a more customizable choice and a way to avoid establishing metas but if there is some sort of issue there I'll take another look at it.

I'll say here that nerfing of the cost in both price and XP was necessary. Knight still costs more than a hero class by about 200000 Cavalry XP and I feel that the horse and horse armour prices are good where they're at, at least for now, as the price for both is achievable by someone of lesser luck or playtime. Hopefully less restrictive than before.

The flexing edit was meant in jest, and it wasn't intended maliciously. Again, I didn't mean to devalue your post.

Sorry if this post doesn't make sense, I typed this from my phone without autocorrect on. I guess we'll see.

Thanks.

Edit: While you're correct that people even without the same gear as you can complete it, it doesn't mean that they don't have good gear. Ebony / Elmwood is still high tier gear, albeit not better than legendary, but still. When I think of the average player, I don't think of somebody with tens of millions in collective items. Maybe I need to shift my perspective of the average cavalry player and make changes based on that instead of trying to appeal for players that have personal crafted and marketplace items.

[DR.]

Apart from woodworks looks fine and ye welcome to the club of using a phone.

With horse armor I was thinking you could nerf the horses hit points and buff the armor. Like really the tr4 horse felt more tanky than my ranger. 

Ye not much people used Courser on a ranged as mutability or what ever it's called helps a lot more than pure speed. 

Me saying the update did not work was a bit harsh but you have to see were I'm going with it. Before the update if I played cav I always picked my ranger as the armor was about on par with xbow gear but you have higher DPS then xbow. To add in the right hands warden was a machine and still is but you had low ish armor.

As ranged play a very big role in the normal modes I would like to see inf having the best chance to solo this mode not sniper. 

= Less Pikeman bots and more ranged just about. 

I would also like to see different types of bots for w12. We have 2 boss's but the same bots that are harder than w15 bots for inf or am I the only one that has more trouble with them?

[Terath]

Apart from woodworks looks fine and ye welcome to the club of using a phone.

With horse armor I was thinking you could nerf the horses hit points and buff the armor. Like really the tr4 horse felt more tanky than my ranger. 

Ye not much people used Courser on a ranged as mutability or what ever it's called helps a lot more than pure speed. 

Me saying the update did not work was a bit harsh but you have to see were I'm going with it. Before the update if I played cav I always picked my ranger as the armor was about on par with xbow gear but you have higher DPS then xbow. To add in the right hands warden was a machine and still is but you had low ish armor.

As ranged play a very big role in the normal modes I would like to see inf having the best chance to solo this mode not sniper. 

= Less Pikeman bots and more ranged just about. 

I would also like to see different types of bots for w12. We have 2 boss's but the same bots that are harder than w15 bots for inf or am I the only one that has more trouble with them?

With the horse / horse armour hit points, we had hoped to encourage the idea that armoured horses could be just as good at unarmoured horses, but at different things. Armoured horses have more hit points, armour and charge damage, while unarmoured horses have more speed and maneuverability. We also hoped that more hit points and less armour would have relatively the same effect as less hit points and higher armour, but enemies bounce off the horse much less. I'll see if the hit points need tweaking or are too high (as currently the health bar runs off the screen haha).

Nerfing ranged on Cavalry is hard because we cannot directly edit player stats only for cavalry, as it would affect normal play as well. The only stat we can change that would not effect is horse archery. We have to either nerf the accuracy of ranged by taking away horse archery, which is a very fine line to tread as it's either pinpoint or completely unusable with the difference of 1 horse archery or we can make all horses slower to make kiting as a ranged character harder (but it also punishes infantry so nothing is fixed). Changing the bots instead of the player never really occurred to me, so thanks. However, I feel like if you're going fast enough, you can avoid ranged bots anyways so I'm not sure how much that would affect the gameplay beyond just shooting the enemy.

You're right that the wave 12 bots are harder than the wave 15 bots for infantry. I'll see about making them easier for infantry, however that would be. Shorter weapons? Slower swing? I don't know.

[DR.]

Well I was thinking like just a army of snipers as bots that have low ammo then turn into shields/1h's. Mini version of the old w18 of rag.

Im not the best at coding but couldn't you just make 2 sets of stats for each id then one for normal play one for cav

On my phone but I will try to show what I mean. When I say can see I mean us normal people can see them on the web site

Main stats
Can see (normal stats)
___
Can't see

---------

Cav stats
Can't see
_
Can see (cav stats)

---

R.i.p when you hit the back button on adroind and you lose 5mins of your life

I should of said this in the other post but may as well say it. The avg player for kiting is richer than normal play. Why.

Well for normal kiting you need a base line so it's about tr4 to hero (when most people would be fucked to try to kite by them self). Ok now cav well what do you need for cav? Xp so the base line is 52 but even then I want to guess people will want hero before tr3-4 in cav. The base line is about hero + maybe 100-500k in gear. So ye I can see the avg player in cav having 10m/ house craftables in gear (even more so in solo's). Also adding the avg player is richer now than 1 or 4 years ago as the inflation etc and all the rich people staying and "new" people moving on.