17-02-2014, 10:34 AM
I am going to chime in here and say that I agree that a min level 50 for Ragnarok would not be unreasonable. If there is suppose to be a progression and there is already a level 39 limit on Hard mode, then a level 50 AND tier 4 support for Ragnarok would be in line with that progression. It would also allow the players to get more experience in the style of play AND the support items necessary to win at Ragnarok.
Otherwise, to be consistent, just do away with all requirements and let level 1's join on Hard mode too. If it is a "progression", then make it a progression. If not, then why have any requirements for any mode....?
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Now, with that said, I have to address some other points in the post from Malong that I absolutely disagree with. I have nothing against him personally and have enjoyed his company on many runs, but I think that the whole attitude of hate and entitlement is what is actually the problem with NI currently.
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(16-02-2014, 09:07 PM)Malong link Wrote: 52. A post stating the intention of Ragnarok and Hard can be found here:
I and others have interpreted this that you are to use Hard to progress in levels (from 32 to 52), and gear ("reasonably high end craftable equipment") to Ragnarok. Also, it mentions middle ranked houses using this for progression, implying that the highest ranked houses were the target of Ragnarok, not everyone in the game. If either interpretation is incorrect, then please let us know.
But right now, people play the very short interval of 32-39 in Hard and then look for any public Ragnarok server where, while they contribute by playing actively, their contributions are entirely enabled by the rest of the people in the server. How far would a 39-51 DPS, Healer, or Juggler get without the Shielders, Engineers bringing in SHCs and Barrels, Medics with Tomes and Boxes? This also doesn't touch on the weapons being dropped by the well-geared players on respawn or tome waves. To be clear, I do not fault players for doing this: by nature, people will follow the path of least resistance, and getting the best experience, gold, and drops while the rest of the server provides the required classes/gear/support items is the easiest way to progress.
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I am sorry, but I have to call BS on this. Countless times I have been in the NI teamspeak and heard your favorite racial slur used time and time again describing some low level person who is not well equipped and whom you are "carrying". In the same sentence you say you don't fault them, you complain about the carrying.... To say you "do not fault them" would be laughable if the situation such hatred is causing were not so serious.
(16-02-2014, 09:07 PM)Malong link Wrote: As for responses to other posters:
- [quote author=Ramos_Caoliki link=topic=23179.msg166220#msg166220 date=1392570063]
This is just the best equipped people in the game complaining that they have to share with those less fortunate.
[quote author=Malong link=topic=23179.msg166251#msg166251 date=1392584837]
The sharing has, for the most part, ended. The system has already driven the group that can consistently succeed in public rag runs to create coordinated runs (basically unofficial events) where people all join a server comprising only that group. Compare this to just two or three months ago when people would not feel this coordination was necessary. Hopefully upcoming changes would repair the schism in this relationship.
While I do agree that the loot system needs an overhaul, I disagree that it is the loot system that is causing the schism in the NI community. Time after time, I have heard complaints about someone who is "undeserving" getting loot, be it either a simple green crafting drop or an actual [mythical] Legendary. If you have an issue with the loot drop, then address the loot issues. Hating the people that get those drops solves nothing. Hating on and refusing to play with people who are not as well equipped as you, don't have the same knowledge of the game as you, or the established friendships you have is not healthy for the community as a whole. It may be satisfying for your group of players, but does nothing to promote the game and help ensure its longevity.
Let me use this analogy. I used to play EverQuest for many years, long before the free to play time. I bought the base game and had to pay full price for every expansion pack, typically two a year. After several years of playing, I had hundreds or thousands of dollars invested in the game and my multiple accounts. However, any NEW player bought only the single latest expansion and had access to ALL the same content/gear as I did. Granted some zones had pre-requisite raid accomplishments to enter, but the general idea is the same. Should I hate that new player for something that they have no control over? Absolutely not. Now, if they are a complete idiot, do not listen to instructions, and consistently ruin the raid/group for everyone else, then I can understand. However, the primary complaint I have heard over and over AND OVER AGAIN is the fact that "undeserving" people get drops, and you have to "carry the noobs" on the server.
(16-02-2014, 09:07 PM)Malong link Wrote:
- [quote author=Maroon link=topic=23179.msg166228#msg166228 date=1392572912]
And finally, how many people with top tier equipment are required to get far in ragnarok? You need one or two shielders, preferably two or three people bringing in short heavy's, someone with a tome, two or three decent slashing weapons, and some decent shooters. If we combine all of that, you end up with 7-8 people. It's not like you instantly wipe when you do not get 16 people bringing in blue weapons and armor.
[quote author=Malong link=topic=23179.msg166251#msg166251 date=1392584837]
Using Town as an example, the optimized is: three shielders, four slashers/pokers, three peeking ranged, and for support items, two tomes, four SHCs, one medic kit, and one barrel. Nonetheless, that doesn't mean that the people bringing in the necessary classes and items should just shrug off the rest and say "well, we can do all the work, so we welcome the others."
{from previous quote, but still applies}
The sharing has, for the most part, ended.
I have to agree with Maroon on his point. With a solid core group of players and a few key items, as long as the well geared players are actually willing to share their items and perhaps their knowledge with others, then there is room for the less fortunate, less charismatic, or even "casual" players who don't have hours a day to commit to this game. In the example you give, if the experienced players with the best gear play the shielding role and bring in their good weapons to drop for others, then the role of slasher/poker can be played by others. Granted a Zweihander will kill faster, a sargent or commando in striped or less can still get the job done. Same goes for the archers. Teach them not to double peek, give them a good bow and they can also be effective. And again, yes a Warden will kill faster but the job will still get done. So I ask why would you NOT want to welcome other? My opinion is the simple fact that your frustration about the loot system has been misdirected toward the players who have no control over it.
The only real "key" is the support items... tome, barrel, field medic boxes. SHC are not such a big deal as they are relatively cheap and not frustratingly impossible to acquire. And while it does take a LOT of dedication and resources to acquire those items, once you have them, it really takes no effort to bring them in game and share them with your team for the benefit of all. You are really not "doing all the work".... that work has already been done.. and I personally thank you for it and wish to express my appreciation for you having them.
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And that is my seqway into my next topic.....
In my opinion, it is definitely an ordeal to get the materials to craft and possess those items and I blame the LOOT/CRAFTING system for making it too difficult for anybody but the most dedicated (or lucky) players to get them. For a tome, 25 waters and 85 leads... are you freaking serious?!?!?! In the last month, I have looted 1 lead, 1 sulfur, and maybe 2 water. I only do a few runs each week because I have a wife, children, a job, and other interests. If you are unlucky in drops and have to buy the stuff then how many runs would you have to do to get the gold.....
Lets say 150k assist exp from a Rag run... equals about 30k gold. So it would take 33 runs to get 1 Million gold.... for 20 water or maybe 10-15 lead at current rates. I don't know about you, but it would take me 2 months or more to accomplish 33 runs, given 6 runs (2 hours each) on a good week. So what.. maybe six months of nothing more than saving up every gold for the materials and I can craft a tome....
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My last topic - Public servers and actions taken on them.
I don't care what your groups does on their events, but public servers are exactly that... PUBLIC.
After seeing the report made today and being in the NI channel (before your removal to a non-NI ts) when you are plotting which server to take over, I know exactly what is going on. I have no doubt that you and your group of people descended on a server and refused to join in until they wiped and quit and then your group would be able to take over the server. Were all the other Rag servers already in use at that time, or that was the one you wanted because of ping? I know that you guys typically look for one that has zero players and then make a coordinated entry so that no "underserving" player sees it and joins in before it fills up.
Other than that, I have also heard of your entire group leaving a server mid-run because someone you didn't like was able to join the server and you didn't want to "carry" them to the boss. I don't have the details of that so there may be a legitimate reason such as an event starting.. but I find it very unlikely.
I do hope that the Dev's and Sr Admins take serious look at these behaviors and take immediate and decisive actions. The only way the NI community is going to heal is if the attitudes of hatred changes. If that means some players that are inciting others are permanently banned, then so be it. The mod should be open for all of us to enjoy.. not just those whom some people deem "deserving". Those that are creating the rifts should be cut out like a cancer.
Oh.. and just because you bring in a tome does not mean that you get a pass on the run. While you have done the mass amounts of work to get the tome, it does NOT mean that bringing it into that run is all you have to do to help the team.
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and that's all I have to say about that... /ready for the flames to begin.
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