Ragnarok requirement level

[Malong]

[quote author=Malong link=topic=23179.msg166379#msg166379 date=1392675915]
By definition of others joining the server, we are not controlling the spots on the server nor manipulating it in any way. All we do is try again, which wouldn't be necessary if it was true circumvention or manipulation. If you want to relegate us to a fixed number of events per period of time, then you are stifling impromptu playing. At this stage of the game, can't we just play with the e-friends we enjoy spending leisure time with?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.  "all we do is try again".... If you can't see that this in itself is circumventing the nature of a Public server, then there is nothing more I can say.[/quote]
There are times people give up, so repeated attempts do not guarantee eventual success. It does not circumvent the nature of a public server: the act of coordinating server joining never actually changes the nature (or properties) of the public server we join, in that it still has no password, we still can't ask the map be changed without reason, and so on.

Again.... I don't want to discourage impromptu play.  I am trying to encourage fair impromptu play.  I am not in any way saying that you cannot play with your friends.  What I am saying is that if you want to play with your friends and ONLY your friends, then do that during official events.  If you want impromptu play on a PUBLIC server, then you MUST be tolerant and accepting of any other player that joins the server, providing they also adhere to the rules and guidelines of fair and courteous play.

Please define "fair impromptu play." What is "unfair" about not being able to play with one segment of the population? To reiterate, we've been told that we don't have to get along with others, that there are plenty of other servers, and that nobody is forcing us to stay in a server if it will make us unhappy, or lead to arguments. But, for the record, we give plenty of people chances, as I stated previously: "that list [of players that will just make us leave] is quite small."

You never have and never will pay the Janitors.  Our employer [NI] already does that.  All the janitor wants is for you to allow them the opportunity to have a job. 

We do not deny them any opportunity to have a job (or play, in this analogy). There are plenty of other servers where they can "work," and more than half are "hiring" (empty).

[ after all.. are YOU going to clean the toilets?!?  ]

If cleaning the toilets in NI equates to mindlessly slashing with others' weapons, shooting the shield wall, juggling, healing, and all the other roles that can be done by other players, then yes, we perform those roles in the absence of "janitors." But while on this topic= the "janitors" seem to clean the toilets unsatisfactorily anyway leaving overflowed poop everywhere (peeking and dying early in waves, tomes despawning, people dying due to lack of heals, and so on).

If you can't see that your actions of "server bombing" {thanks for providing the name for this activity =P } is creating a monopoly of THAT server and denying a fair opportunity to other players who just want a chance to also play the game, then there is again nothing more I can say.

Rhetorical question: what is a "fair opportunity?" Because, as you acknowledge, with only one or two concurrent populated Ragnarok servers, there will still be two other empty ones. The real question is "what is the difference between a public server with 'the group' and an empty public server?" and the answer is only "the people populating the server." Is it really unfair that people are being excluded from "the group?" Is there any right or privilege granted to everyone that plays NI to be able to play with any group of players? Of course not.

Since you brought up EQ (which I only played with borrowed accounts), this cannot be the first time you've seen this behavior. There are definitely closed cliques/guilds/premades camping open world (i.e. public) bosses and competing over them? You must have witnessed this.

In your last statement, you are pretty vague.. "one or more".  Sure, if one, two, three, maybe even four players all leave at once, then the spots will fill up again and the run can continue.  But what we are talking about is eight, ten, twelve, or even fifteen people all leaving the server at once.  Do you really expect a run that gets fragmented like that to be able to continue? Seriously?

Look at the inciting incident that started this argument. It's six players. Those six left, and the server emptied out anyway. Were the other ten fragmented and incapable of staying and continuing? Seriously?

Especially given the fact that I have witnessed you leaving a server... picking up your tome, putting it in inventory and making sure not to leave it for the benefit of the stranded players.  Yes, it is your tome and you have the right to do with it as you please... but really?

I changed to spectator at the indirect request of players in the game. But since you bring up this somewhat tangential argument, I have to again point out that this behavior should not be new to you. You know someone who is known for not dying for support items unless begged (despite the obvious mass suicides when toming), drop their weapons for others when they do not have the prime slashing spot, has destroyed platforms when others use them, and so on.

I have said what I am trying to convey to you in what I hope has been clear and logical arguments.  If I have been unable to sway your opinion, then we will just have to agree to disagree.  I have nothing against you personally and have in fact enjoyed the runs we have done together in the past.. long before you left the NI TeamSpeak and the situation boiled up to where it is now.  I do sincerely hope that you consider my arguments with an open mind and that the upcoming loot changes do in fact help to alleviate the schism currently  existing in the NI community.

Probably not, and I definitely appreciate the discussion. For me, it's that the argument always leads to "my group" making every concession, with not even a compromise or attempt to understand our point of view. On the issue of TS, our hand was forced: a rule was broken, a member was banned somewhat on a technicality, so we had to use a different TS server. We understand that the unintended and unforeseen consequence has led to players not being able to see when we gather and prepare for a Ragnarok run. This itself has caused players outside "my group" to have a much more difficult time in joining public Ragnarok runs. Yet no one addresses that.