POLL - Leeching is still leeching, even if you are not technically "AFK"

[Malong]

FYI, As Julianature found out in the "Friendliest Player" vote back in December:

Hello everyone,
Unfortunately, I have some rather sad news. It seems someone couldn’t resist and has abused the survey. Among the 74 participants, there are at least 15–20 people who haven’t been active in the forum for several years—some of them are very old usernames that had already stopped being active back when I was more active.
Unsurprisingly, these accounts have all voted for roughly the same individuals. I’ve sent private messages to these accounts, but I likely won’t receive a timely response (if any at all).
It’s genuinely disappointing that such a wonderful event is being shamelessly exploited like this.
With that in mind, we will be redoing the vote with stricter security measures. This time, like we’ve done for the Advent Calendar, we’ll use StrawPoll with an IP restriction. To prevent inactive forum users from voting under false identities, I ask that after completing the survey, you confirm your participation here in the forum with a comment. Anyone who does not leave a comment here will be manually removed from the survey by me.
I hope the individuals responsible will take a moment to reflect on their behavior. Enough words for now—let’s focus again on the positive and celebrate the achievements of some of our amazing community members.

Best regards,
Julian

So your poll may not be accurate to the sentiment of the active community.

If it's people with forum accounts, then that's the same controls that Julianature later required.

[Ufe]

FYI, As Julianature found out in the "Friendliest Player" vote back in December:

Hello everyone,
Unfortunately, I have some rather sad news. It seems someone couldn’t resist and has abused the survey. Among the 74 participants, there are at least 15–20 people who haven’t been active in the forum for several years—some of them are very old usernames that had already stopped being active back when I was more active.
Unsurprisingly, these accounts have all voted for roughly the same individuals. I’ve sent private messages to these accounts, but I likely won’t receive a timely response (if any at all).
It’s genuinely disappointing that such a wonderful event is being shamelessly exploited like this.
With that in mind, we will be redoing the vote with stricter security measures. This time, like we’ve done for the Advent Calendar, we’ll use StrawPoll with an IP restriction. To prevent inactive forum users from voting under false identities, I ask that after completing the survey, you confirm your participation here in the forum with a comment. Anyone who does not leave a comment here will be manually removed from the survey by me.
I hope the individuals responsible will take a moment to reflect on their behavior. Enough words for now—let’s focus again on the positive and celebrate the achievements of some of our amazing community members.

Best regards,
Julian

So your poll may not be accurate to the sentiment of the active community.

Yes... i also fear that our players in CN or others who cannot read English will not be able to participate.  But this is the best forum I can find to at least get a feel for it.

by the way, I did like your idea about some sort of inactive player report being sent by the server periodically.  I am not a coder, so no sense if that is even possible, but have asked the question...

And yes, it is also possible that the survey could be hacked or the results skewed intentionally by some other actions.

As far as I know, many CN players have not registered for forums or have trouble opening forums because they need VPN. Or the webpage opening speed is calculated in minute.

[Stillicho]

Total kills are not an indicator of activity as some people seem to be suggesting here. I've been in games where a player is trying their best and show great skill but their gear and/or ping just doesn't allow them to get many kills. They're still trying, though, and I like seeing that.

What I find demoralizing is when someone is standing in a corner doing absolutely nothing until a boss is on screen, often times either not bringing support or bringing the absolute bear minimum of support to get the E/M next to their name. These players seem to be doing their level best to not support the team in any way and they should be booted. If they don't want to be present and play with the team then they can go solo kite if they want loot.

Maybe add in an automated server message saying something like "Playername has not contributed for 60/120/180 seconds" to try to shame them into doing something?

I agree with most of this except the times. 5 minutes for afk is already short enough. What happens if I have to go to the restroom? Am I not allowed to piss?

[Spirit]

Total kills are not an indicator of activity as some people seem to be suggesting here. I've been in games where a player is trying their best and show great skill but their gear and/or ping just doesn't allow them to get many kills. They're still trying, though, and I like seeing that.

What I find demoralizing is when someone is standing in a corner doing absolutely nothing until a boss is on screen, often times either not bringing support or bringing the absolute bear minimum of support to get the E/M next to their name. These players seem to be doing their level best to not support the team in any way and they should be booted. If they don't want to be present and play with the team then they can go solo kite if they want loot.

Maybe add in an automated server message saying something like "Playername has not contributed for 60/120/180 seconds" to try to shame them into doing something?

I agree with most of this except the times. 5 minutes for afk is already short enough. What happens if I have to go to the restroom? Am I not allowed to piss?

From start of post:

Q.  Am I not allowed to go AFK??

A.  Of course you are allowed to go AFK if necessary.  We all realize that there may be something IRL that you need to attend to.  However, this should be an exception and not the norm.  If you have something you need to do IRL that consistently takes your attention away from the run, perhaps you should give up your spot for someone who can and will actively play the game, especially if the run is full.   Do not misconstrue this to mean that it is OK to leech if the run is not full.  Leeching is never acceptable in my opinion.

A single 5 minute afk during a run is sufficient for most people to take care of any bio-breaks necessary and is completely within the current rule set/gameplay etiquette, with the caveat that you announce your AFK to the team.

"If you need to step away for a short while, say so. This might avoid a misunderstanding where you seem to be gone for a long while. (For longer periods of time, please leave the server. With 16 people per server, every spot counts.)"

https://wiki.nordinvasion.com/doku.php?id=rules:start

If you have to go AFK for 5+ minutes several times during the run, perhaps you should not be playing and rather attend to your IRL issues.

[TekDevn]

3.  Only killing bots on occasion so that you are not on the bottom of the kill count list, but never ever actually helping to take out the ranged bots where there is a chance you might get killed and miss a loot chance.

In my opinion as a big fan of zwei I dont have any other choices then just staying behind the cade and only killing bots on occasion especially in rag runs. Because there was actually a playstyle that u just face downwards dogging ranged attacks and when u get closer u just pick some of them meele as a meat shield for others. Now if u try to get closer the ranged, u will get stun chains from attacks and die, or probably my ranged teammates will clear them before I reach them because holding left slash while facing downwards gives u huge lack of speed right now. Ofc it was just one of the playstyles, shield or RG classes could work well with infantry but it is already frustrating to get ranged kills with zwei while my whole ranged team clears them, its just chasing ghosts with this speed

For the solution(leeching)
since the game is PvE and one of the main goal is chiling and having fun I think that should not be directly Legal or illegal. it could stay on the “gray” line where admins are checking for the players especially making career with leeching. for me I dont see any problems on leeching normal or comfy hard runs in easy maps

[Crossbowman]

FYI, As Julianature found out in the "Friendliest Player" vote back in December:

Hello everyone,
Unfortunately, I have some rather sad news. It seems someone couldn’t resist and has abused the survey. Among the 74 participants, there are at least 15–20 people who haven’t been active in the forum for several years—some of them are very old usernames that had already stopped being active back when I was more active.
Unsurprisingly, these accounts have all voted for roughly the same individuals. I’ve sent private messages to these accounts, but I likely won’t receive a timely response (if any at all).
It’s genuinely disappointing that such a wonderful event is being shamelessly exploited like this.
With that in mind, we will be redoing the vote with stricter security measures. This time, like we’ve done for the Advent Calendar, we’ll use StrawPoll with an IP restriction. To prevent inactive forum users from voting under false identities, I ask that after completing the survey, you confirm your participation here in the forum with a comment. Anyone who does not leave a comment here will be manually removed from the survey by me.
I hope the individuals responsible will take a moment to reflect on their behavior. Enough words for now—let’s focus again on the positive and celebrate the achievements of some of our amazing community members.

Best regards,
Julian

So your poll may not be accurate to the sentiment of the active community.

Yes... i also fear that our players in CN or others who cannot read English will not be able to participate.  But this is the best forum I can find to at least get a feel for it.

by the way, I did like your idea about some sort of inactive player report being sent by the server periodically.  I am not a coder, so no sense if that is even possible, but have asked the question...

And yes, it is also possible that the survey could be hacked or the results skewed intentionally by some other actions.

As far as I know, many CN players have not registered for forums or have trouble opening forums because they need VPN. Or the webpage opening speed is calculated in minute.

Yes, for a long time, the inability to register without VPN has been a problem

[fantasyboy]

In fact, i am not care. I am familiar with most of the CN members because i do many runs in these 4 years after i back to NI. (Or more directly, i got more that 120m total xp after 4 years) they have their different actions in different modes. Some of them like me are concentrate on game. of course not all of us.                     
I know some ppl said "classic CN" ever when they found some cn members go afk many times in eu servers. and yeah, it is mostly occurs when i was sleeping. I found that i can only control myself.
And some ppl even feel offended when be told afk by admin. and let the runs full of arguments.
Back to the end of 2021 or begin of 2022. I found that only 6~8 ppl play rag runs every day. That hard time our teammates fully concentrate to game to let it win. I do many dangerous ragnarok with different ppl from different nations at that special time. I still recall that hard but thrilling time even now.
Honestly, there are more ppl back,there are more inevitable afk back too.
This is ultimately a difficult problem to solve.

[Ufe]

Yes, AFK is not always a problem for players. The repetitiveness of game mechanics leads to a decrease in player motivation.

[DR.]

I recently purchased a SoK not because I needed it, but because I got tired of people constantly dropping their shields for me because I was bringing in an Aegis.  The Aegis was perfectly capable of shielding Rag runs without only occasionally needing to swap shields.  I also stopped looking for anvils as I am able to just get new shields on next respawn.....

Another change worth noting is what you have mentioned... "people clocking in for loot like it's their job."

It used to be that selling items for IRL currency was banned, but that is no longer the case.  When people can sell their loot for real cash, then THAT is the incentive to treat it is a job and not a game.

I admit that I have been tempted to pay IRL money for items, but ultimately did not do so.  Perhaps that is an issue that should also be addressed, but way outside the scope of this discussion.

Thank you again,

Spirit

I get that it's like how people in game look at you like you're insane If you suggest, you can shield without the perfect optimal gear or class for that matter 

I use to shield a lot on my juggernaut because when your body is the shield, you don't actually need that good of Shields as long as heals are consistent

I stopped playing 5 years ago because I effectively had everything in game that I wanted to the point that I was selling things for real money just for a reason to grind to get it again

Selling items for real money has definitely changed how this game is played because so many people are like "I want to play optimally"

The most optimal way to play this game is to turn off your computer get out of your chair, go apply for like a minimum wage job and grind that instead

It's like for me just a bit of work at my job and I could buy a full set of the best gear 

If you only play ni at this point because you only enjoy loot and not game play.. you need help take it from me I definitely use to be addicted to this place 

There more to experience in life then putting ungodly amount of time into this place just for the dopamine rush of looting

[CN_Lang]

Leeching is not good ,especially when there is very little left to fight in the entire team,someone still afk, he/she not going use tome,then we all guys lost many opportunities to drop.
We should pay attention to this situation，this will make many people's efforts go to waste.