Community Manager?

[Buttercup]

[quote author=Buttercup link=topic=24480.msg171433#msg171433 date=1395642040]
This is all just a observation, so please don't try to tear me a new one. I understand that my opinion will be debated, so just try to be respectful, and not make me look like a fool.

Might it be that your all afraid of Hande? I would go as far as to say im even afraid of him. The guy is a stone cold killer. You should see him on WoT. he shows no remorse, but i also have to add that whenever i ask for help, say something stupid(often), or ask a stupid question he answers politely or just laughs( in text form of course). The man LIVES for this game and the community, and for that reason, i think that is why he has had the tittle of Community Manager for so long; he just belongs there. I'm not saying that he should never be promoted to a higher position either. GOD forbid Hyper ever leaves, Hande will definitely be able to run the community and the Mod after the in sewing shit storm that follows Hypers leave. I will admit that when Hande( and even hyper) give short answers and no followup info unless you ask, it does put on a mask of anger or discontent, but you just have to look past. play more games with him, talk to him more, and give the man some props for putting up with our shit since day 1, and that is why Hande, you get my gratitude and respect for your endless support of this mod. Hyper, you just get a  high five.

You've bonded with Hande through World of Tanks. Not NI. Should be the other way around.
[/quote]
WoT was only the example. I have played meany games with him in NI and as i said before, whenever i need help and yuri is not on, i go to him.

[Timmix]

[quote author=Buttercup link=topic=24480.msg171433#msg171433 date=1395642040]
This is all just a observation, so please don't try to tear me a new one. I understand that my opinion will be debated, so just try to be respectful, and not make me look like a fool.

Might it be that your all afraid of Hande? I would go as far as to say im even afraid of him. The guy is a stone cold killer. You should see him on WoT. he shows no remorse, but i also have to add that whenever i ask for help, say something stupid(often), or ask a stupid question he answers politely or just laughs( in text form of course). The man LIVES for this game and the community, and for that reason, i think that is why he has had the tittle of Community Manager for so long; he just belongs there. I'm not saying that he should never be promoted to a higher position either. GOD forbid Hyper ever leaves, Hande will definitely be able to run the community and the Mod after the in sewing shit storm that follows Hypers leave. I will admit that when Hande( and even hyper) give short answers and no followup info unless you ask, it does put on a mask of anger or discontent, but you just have to look past. play more games with him, talk to him more, and give the man some props for putting up with our shit since day 1, and that is why Hande, you get my gratitude and respect for your endless support of this mod. Hyper, you just get a  high five.

You've bonded with Hande through World of Tanks. Not NI. Should be the other way around.
[/quote]Slayer has done his homework
I don't see whats so bad about Hande, hes nice and does a great job. Though I kinda fail to see how a "man of few words" could be very interactive with the community. I mean, I kill Nords too can I be the community manager 

[Weiner]

hm, i agree. A community manager should be more interactive with the community. Someone who actually socialises with the people. Simply being "active" doesn't cut it.

[human_being]

[quote author=Buttercup link=topic=24480.msg171433#msg171433 date=1395642040]
This is all just a observation, so please don't try to tear me a new one. I understand that my opinion will be debated, so just try to be respectful, and not make me look like a fool.

Might it be that your all afraid of Hande? I would go as far as to say im even afraid of him. The guy is a stone cold killer. You should see him on WoT. he shows no remorse, but i also have to add that whenever i ask for help, say something stupid(often), or ask a stupid question he answers politely or just laughs( in text form of course). The man LIVES for this game and the community, and for that reason, i think that is why he has had the tittle of Community Manager for so long; he just belongs there. I'm not saying that he should never be promoted to a higher position either. GOD forbid Hyper ever leaves, Hande will definitely be able to run the community and the Mod after the in sewing shit storm that follows Hypers leave. I will admit that when Hande( and even hyper) give short answers and no followup info unless you ask, it does put on a mask of anger or discontent, but you just have to look past. play more games with him, talk to him more, and give the man some props for putting up with our shit since day 1, and that is why Hande, you get my gratitude and respect for your endless support of this mod. Hyper, you just get a  high five.

You've bonded with Hande through World of Tanks. Not NI. Should be the other way around.
[/quote]

Really Slayer? Really? Diamond puts a shitload of text here, even says "This is all just a observation, so please don't try to tear me a new one. " - and you just ignore 99% of what he just said and complain about them playing WoT together? man what the hell!

It's just funny how suddenly everyone has a huge problem with hande - and has super-duber ideas how a community manager should do his job. Are you gonna tell Yuri how do fix map next time? Or tell Kip how do fix glitches on the website?
The Devs always deserve more probs than they actually get, and ffs they do it in there goddamn free time, they don't get money for it. What is needed is encouragment and requests and of course critique.
And mostly important: this community doesn't need a special policemen to tell kiddies how to behave on the internet. or a parent for every underage player on NI to teach them how to treat others.

[Buttercup]

I don't see whats so bad about Hande, hes nice and does a great job. Though I kinda fail to see how a "man of few words" could be very interactive with the community. I mean, I kill Nords too can I be the community manager 

hm, i agree. A community manager should be more interactive with the community. Someone who actually socialises with the people. Simply being "active" doesn't cut it.

Maybe you guys should put in the effort to talk to Hande. He is often in the CC channel or at weekly events.

To what Weinèr said: Hande is more then just active, he is busy. He has a lot more on his plates them most of us do.

[Slayer]

[quote author=Slayer link=topic=24480.msg171435#msg171435 date=1395646117]
[quote author=Buttercup link=topic=24480.msg171433#msg171433 date=1395642040]
This is all just a observation, so please don't try to tear me a new one. I understand that my opinion will be debated, so just try to be respectful, and not make me look like a fool.

Might it be that your all afraid of Hande? I would go as far as to say im even afraid of him. The guy is a stone cold killer. You should see him on WoT. he shows no remorse, but i also have to add that whenever i ask for help, say something stupid(often), or ask a stupid question he answers politely or just laughs( in text form of course). The man LIVES for this game and the community, and for that reason, i think that is why he has had the tittle of Community Manager for so long; he just belongs there. I'm not saying that he should never be promoted to a higher position either. GOD forbid Hyper ever leaves, Hande will definitely be able to run the community and the Mod after the in sewing shit storm that follows Hypers leave. I will admit that when Hande( and even hyper) give short answers and no followup info unless you ask, it does put on a mask of anger or discontent, but you just have to look past. play more games with him, talk to him more, and give the man some props for putting up with our shit since day 1, and that is why Hande, you get my gratitude and respect for your endless support of this mod. Hyper, you just get a  high five.

You've bonded with Hande through World of Tanks. Not NI. Should be the other way around.
[/quote]

Really Slayer? Really? Diamond puts a shitload of text here, even says "This is all just a observation, so please don't try to tear me a new one. " - and you just ignore 99% of what he just said and complain about them playing WoT together? man what the hell!

It's just funny how suddenly everyone has a huge problem with hande - and has super-duber ideas how a community manager should do his job. Are you gonna tell Yuri how do fix map next time? Or tell Kip how do fix glitches on the website?
The Devs always deserve more probs than they actually get, and ffs they do it in there goddamn free time, they don't get money for it. What is needed is encouragment and requests and of course critique.
And mostly important: this community doesn't need a special policemen to tell kiddies how to behave on the internet. or a parent for every underage player on NI to teach them how to treat others.

[/quote]

I didn't ignore 99% of what he's saying. He says he's bonded with Hande, Hande listens to him and things he says, and the way they first started communicating was world of tanks, what more was said beside he cares a lot for the community which is obvious.

You are missing the point mate, we aren't critiquing Hande, look at my above posts, he's good at the things he does, he's excellent, he's amazing, but he's not what a "Community Manager' is. My above posts describe the situation entirely.

You guys really need to stop thinking that we are harassing Hande because we aren't. We're simply saying he doesn't do the roles of a Community Manager, however the roles he does do is superb, such as, which i've already said, Developing the mod, fixing bugs/maps, responding to Emails/PM's sent to the administrator account (According to hyper). The rest is null which is the community manager's job.

Yes, he is working for free, yes, he loves the mod, no, we are not saying he is shit at what he does. I repeat, we are simply saying that he does not fill the role of COMMUNITY MANAGER. Everything else he does is excellent and we would obviously be fucked if he left.

Just another thing, I re-read your last paragraph and you really don't understand what a Community Manager is, I suggest you do some research.

Maybe you guys should put in the effort to talk to Hande. He is often in the CC channel or at weekly events.
To what Weinèr said: Hande is more then just active, he is busy. He has a lot more on his plates them most of us do.

From my 2 years of playing and 2000 hours + spent in the mod and over 1400 hours in the NI Teamspeak, not once have I seen Hande join a channel and SPEAK to players. I've only seen him Join the Teamspeak Server and either go into the AFK Channel, or into his Dark Cave thing with his Finnish friends.

1) You can't join his Dark Cave
2) You can't get in unless you speak Finnish and Hande likes you
3) You can't speak in AFK
4) You don't even know if he's in the Dark Cave because it never shows up meaning you can't message him
5) Hande has this reputation of "The man who never speaks" - Because he doesn't speak to other people other than his        Finnish friends and the Developers.

Again, not bashing on Hande, just saying, AGAIN, these are NOT the traits of a Community Manager.

[Legend]

Despite the fact he is not actually speaking through verbal communication, he pretty much did and does all that stuff a community manager should do. And he is doing even more than that. Just look at his recent topics and make yourself a conclusion.

Besides the fact of him being a developer, map maker and having a real life with a job he is doing an excellent job as a community manager in my humble opinion.If I were on his position, way more people would have been banned from the forums and the game, for being completely ignorant, acting accordingly stupid and showing no remorse.Just try to empathize for a moment and step in Hande`s shoes, if you still breathing like a fish you failed in your social skills.
He is very patient with you guys and way too generous.

(Note that this is my personal opinion and this may differ from Hande`s perspective completely)

[Darkfire]

Yeaaaaaa is there really in any point on arguing about this? Because I am pretty sure we can't force him to give up his position as community manager and I doubt hyper is gonna make him give up his position. .....just saying

[Buttercup]

Slayer, you're post would be a lot to quote, so I'm not going to quote it.

What i think of when i hear "Community Manager" is a person who has a large say for changes and ideas that the community has, and organizer of community projects and events.

When it comes to ideas and changes to the game that come directly from the community, Hande is either directly involved or indirectly involved. Hande has top say(With Hypers approval, or maybe even without, seeing as Hyper most defiantly trusts Hande with control of the mod) for most things that go into the game that come from us, the community. When i say Hande is indirectly involved i mean that power runs down a chain of command, from the community manager to devs, and then to admins.

Feature Requests: From what i can see, Hyper or Hande have at least one post in every topic that has a decent idea. The way i see it, theres no need to talk about something if it will never happen, and they follow that same idea. If it does nothing but start a fight or waste time; remove it. If it has a chance, or a hint of bettering the mod and community I see no reason for them not to hear you out, and that is what i believe there individual posts are saying; that we understand and would like to hear more on this.
Models and Textures: When i look on that sub-topic i see Senni. I see Senni with a large opinion and influence on this sub-topic. I would like to believe that Senni has much more experience with models then Hande does, and for that reason Hande does not post there often.
In the end, all the models still come from the community and have to go through  Hande or Hyper before they are put into the game( unless Senni lets one slip in, like the aurora blade).
Maps: Yuri, Hande, and Benschie on the side. Hande has a large say on anything that happens to maps. for god sake, he makes some of the maps.
Official Events: Though Yuri runs them, Hande still attends from time to time. You cant expect someone to change there hole life just to make it to every event can you? So if Hande miss's a event, i would say it was work, busy, or he had something better to do with his time, even if thats watching TV(hes not required to play all the time, and whenever he has free time). 

I believe all the things Hande does allows him the tittle of community manger.

Maybe I'm on the wrong subject here? Is this really only about the definition of the tittle? well, then what if we were to change Handes tittle to Community developer. It makes since seeing how he plays a hand(get it) in most things that the community does or submits to the devs. With that, we could give another person the position of Community Manager, someone who can be trusted by most of the community to submit ideas that are well thought out and understandable and pass it onto the devs to have a look over with more inventive eye's toward the details. This person would most likely need to be a admin to avoid any problems of abuse, but there has to be at least one admin we all can trust not to abuse the rights given to him.

How would we select this new community manager? It would be chosen by 3 Devs and 3 non-dev players. How would we select these non-dev players? By going to the three largest and most active house at the time. The houses will select a Representative and they will all cast a vote on who to give the tittle. This would be repeated every 4 months or new quarter. Of course this is just a idea, but it could have some success if we put aside our petty differences.

Aging with this post, I'm not trying to offend anyone. I only want to state my opinion and ideas, and i open up to anyone else who would like to respectfully debate with me. (by respectfully i mean not breaking down ever sentience and looking at the hole picture).   

[Timmix]

[quote author=iNStaNtlY-DeaD link=topic=24480.msg171443#msg171443 date=1395653751]
I don't see whats so bad about Hande, hes nice and does a great job. Though I kinda fail to see how a "man of few words" could be very interactive with the community. I mean, I kill Nords too can I be the community manager 

hm, i agree. A community manager should be more interactive with the community. Someone who actually socialises with the people. Simply being "active" doesn't cut it.

Maybe you guys should put in the effort to talk to Hande. He is often in the CC channel or at weekly events.

To what Weinèr said: Hande is more then just active, he is busy. He has a lot more on his plates them most of us do.
[/quote]I have played NI since 2012 and only this year have I seen Hande ingame for the first time. Never seen him in TS either.
The only time I saw him in game he was running around with funny looking weapons, when people started asking him questions or saying 'Hello' and such he attempted to hide in a bush.
I'm not trying to name and shame Hande or anything and yes he does a wonderful job at everything besides, in my opinion, the role of Community Manager.

Perhaps this thread will give new insight to Hande? Nevertheless I digress.