The New Changes

[evildan]

Agree with Blondin... most of the people posting only play normal mode. you can still solo with a commando to wave 16 on normal!

[FinKone]

I havent saw a reply - so for the most part I just want to know whats up with class points?  lvl 51 commando with 2 CPs left?  This right?

[Pandabomber]

I'm not going to quote Blondin's entire post, but it's certainly how it is. The player attribute/weapon proficiency nerfs hurt hard mode a little too much. Nerfed bots or no, we're a lot weaker than we used to be, and throwing more rangers at the problem certainly didn't make anything better. Besides, changing too much too fast is never pleasing to the masses. Didn't any of you ever read The Prince?

[Hypernoma]

I havent saw a reply - so for the most part I just want to know whats up with class points?  lvl 51 commando with 2 CPs left?  This right?

You obviously havent check the other areas of the forums where we were fixing this problem for people Fixed now.

[Holo Steel]

[quote author=FinKone link=topic=2415.msg20980#msg20980 date=1333819504]
I havent saw a reply - so for the most part I just want to know whats up with class points?  lvl 51 commando with 2 CPs left?  This right?

You obviously havent check the other areas of the forums where we were fixing this problem for people Fixed now.
[/quote]

Hypernoma the problem solver... 

[FinKone]

[quote author=FinKone link=topic=2415.msg20980#msg20980 date=1333819504]
I havent saw a reply - so for the most part I just want to know whats up with class points?  lvl 51 commando with 2 CPs left?  This right?

You obviously havent check the other areas of the forums where we were fixing this problem for people Fixed now.
[/quote]

You're right - I dont have a lot of time lately so I didnt check each topic on the forum... 

[Lanseril]

I've been jumping into hard servers every time I see more than a handful of people in one, and the furthest we've gotten since the patch is Einherjars. Which actually doesn't seem too unreasonable to me: IMO it's as far as most groups could've gotten on most maps pre-patch as well. In my experience (and I've played enough hard mode to see Odin twice), the vast majority of pre-patch hard mode play consisted of:

* Abusing poor AI pathing and the bench "spot" in the old Swadian City map;
* Spamming infinite res tomes to raise rambo commandos; and
* For well-coordinated groups, horse walling to nerf cavalry waves (such as mounted soldiers).

Even without all the class changes, if you simply dropped most pre-patch groups into a setting with the removal of those crutches, I'm sure that the vast majority of them would be floundering as well. So given how much people have been scared off of hard mode since the patch, IMO it's premature to simply pin everything on the class changes instead of all these other factors. We'll have a better picture as more people slowly start venturing into hard again.

I'm pretty sure though that snipers will be dominating hard mode now. I have a lvl52 sniper, and even without any legendaries I think the sniper nerfs are vastly overblown. You still have high rate-of-fire into crowds simply by releasing early before the reticule has fully closed (with still much better accuracy than throwing weapons), and you still have very good (if not perfect) long-range accuracy when taking your time and adjusting your aim higher. Body shots are a bit less lethal, but headshots still kill rangers. And sniper-skirmishers can still easily kite entire waves. I don't feel that snipers are underpowered at all, just less easy than they used to be. Compared to the across-the-board reduction commandos received and the underpowered new classes, snipers will soon be recognized as the new undisputed kings of hard mode (again), even if (as evildan pointed out) commandos still own normal mode pretty handily. Hard mode groups are going to be leaning on (and demanding) quality sniping a lot more than they used to.

[Pandabomber]

Good post Lanseril.

I figured the Sniper nerfs were overblown, I really haven't seen much of a decrease in performance from them, except for missing the occasional shot and body shots being less lethal. I also haven't seen any on hard mode servers since the patch, maybe I just haven't been playing often enough. How do they fare on hard mode? I'm currently 4/1 Sharpshooter/Infantry, and Siege Crossbow shots to the head of a Veteran Soldier aren't one-shotting them, like I figured they should at least be able to do that.

[Illithar]

Don't really disagree with the Lanseril analysis (and I've never seen Odin). Nor have a lot of us that play sniper been complaining about the nerf as it's applied to sniper.

My 2 issues are the range feels odd when a Huntsman, say on town map easily outdistances you firing uphill and you downhill, this does not feel correct and if possible elevation should be in the physics of the game play. As well as "sniping" (originally hunting a form of Indian Robin, I think) should feel like that, what we think sniping should feel like.

Equally the regular cades feel higher than they look visually, but no-one else seems to have mentioned this, but obviously you can adjust for that anyhow, just aim above their heads.

But it's not the end of the world as we know it.

[Turpis]

Personally I feel that the problem with playing as a sniper after the nerf is dealing with the large amount of AI archers that come in later waves and in general in hardmode.  Dealing with melee bots isn't really an issue, we just wait till they get closer before firing.  But archers on the other hand if we left them get into firing distance without thinning them out there's just too many to handle especially when there is a 10-15% chance that our headshot can miss.  While 10-15% might not seem like much it makes a difference you have to think about how the AI can score a ridiculous amount of headshots.  But thats just how I feel about the sniper nerf.

On another note, I feel that skirmisher armour is really weak and somewhat over priced for the first two tiers of the class.  At T2 the best armour I've seen for the class is rated at 22 body, and 12 leg at the cost of 3.5k.  A leather jerkin can be bought for 300-500, usable at T1 archer and infantry, offers 24 body and 10 leg.