Tiny Hero Class Changes (Discount week)

[Barristan]

Each to their own. I suppose the shielding skill is wasted and pointless, as you said. Not having a go at you, but how would you really understand the role of the class if you've been afg and haven't played with the hero classes for hundreds, or thousands of hours, or even 10? I mean yeah, numbers tell you stats, but unless you've been in these "Emergency" situations multiple times with the class at hand, you can't necessarily pull a concise judgement.

Speaking of 'emergency' situations...

[Sosruko]

Why on earth would you even play halberdier or zweihander?

Well it's easy to rationalize why to play Zweihander. The survivability factor is so much higher than with Marauder that is not even a question (90+ body armor/70+ head armor). Not to mention you can shield Ragnarok as Zweihander with Royal Shield/Resilience. Also blunt weapons (hwh/stone maul/mjollnir) are the optimal choice behind the shield wall.

For Halberdier the question is a more complex one. In my opinion you should never use other melee weapons than spears with Pikeman in the first place because the advantage of poking behind the cades is too good to pass up. You are not taking valuable slashing positions from other classes if you do this.

So here the Halberdier traits come into play because you can't rely on the shield wall to protect you while you are standing behind the cades. Having more ironflesh and helmet with 57 armor (vs. 50 armor) can be the decisive difference between life and death. It is a matter of playstyle really and how well you dodge. As already discussed Halberdier body armor needs the weight lowered to 15.0-20.0 range and stats boosted about +3-5 all around or giving access of +8 armor gauntlets to Halberdier only.

[Mr.Peso]

[quote author=Slayer link=topic=31914.msg197900#msg197900 date=1410855014]Why on earth would you even play halberdier or zweihander?

Well it's easy to rationalize why to play Zweihander. The survivability factor is so much higher than with Marauder that is not even a question (90+ body armor/70+ head armor). Not to mention you can shield Ragnarok as Zweihander with Royal Shield/Resilience. Also blunt weapons (hwh/stone maul/mjollnir) are the optimal choice behind the shield wall.

For Halberdier the question is a more complex one. In my opinion you should never use other melee weapons than spears with Pikeman in the first place because the advantage of poking behind the cades is too good to pass up. You are not taking valuable slashing positions from other classes if you do this.

So here the Halberdier traits come into play because you can't rely on the shield wall to protect you while you are standing behind the cades. Having more ironflesh and helmet with 57 armor (vs. 50 armor) can be the decisive difference between life and death. It is a matter of playstyle really and how well you dodge. As already discussed Halberdier body armor needs the weight lowered to 15.0-20.0 range and stats boosted about +3-5 all around or giving access of +8 armor gauntlets to Halberdier only.
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Guess he means the basically nonexistant advantages that ZWei has over RG. I'd take an RG over a Zwei any day since RG's are just more versatile.
Don't use Rg tho since I'm a Legionnaire enthusiast

[clickeverywhere]

I may have said some bad things about Zweihander in the past, but my thoughts on the matter have changed. Zweihander is definitely a versatile class and the increases in two handed are actually quite noticeable. I found this out when I went back to playing my Royal Guard for a few rounds. The frequency with which you can one-shot enemies on normal mode and hard mode increases greatly with the Zwei. Going back to normal mode on a RG was something of a chore compared to the fun I had with the Zweihander. Of course, gear is always a factor, and the royal guard relies on more of a defensive playstyle.

[Barristan]

Click is no longer the AFK shielder and has gone zwei??? My universe is broken.

[clickeverywhere]

AFK shielding is out of style. Now the cool kids go outside the shield wall and slash from there! Also, moving shield walls.

Now, I've played around with the halberdier for around two hours. Having played halberdier, I can say I am happy to have chosen master peltast on my other character. The additional damage and slight increase to accuracy are invaluable. I'll agree with the other posts in the thread that the halberdier is lacking in armor choices -- especially as a class based upon survivability and armor. Not to mention, the highest level craftable body armor available to them appears to be 3x the weight of the eastern full scale, making halberdiers even slower than their alternative-pikemen-hero compatriots (as if the missing 2 athletics was not enough). Additionally, the 3x weight carries with it two less armor than the Eastern Full Scale. I know it's a legendary, but it's also useable by all pikemen. It's such a versatile armor that it makes the halberdier armors seem completely terrible in comparison. Since the whole point of the halberdier class seems to be "bulky pikeman", I'd say it should outclass the other hero pikemen in this respect at least. Add more body armor to the halb only armors and it'll make the 30 weight worth it.

I believe it was suggested in another thread to open up hand armor choices for halberdiers, and I'll definitely have to agree with that. T4 crossbowmen have access to very good hand armor. Why not give halberdiers access to those same choices? (maybe even include the choice of using studded). According to the swadian equipment guide, the only head armor unlocked from going halberdier is the Thanos legacy. There aren't many choices, really, unless you're rolling in dough. As it is now, the halberdier is not capable of excelling in what it was meant to do -- that is, be a tanky pikeman (who can preferably survive a few slashes from royal assassins). (Also, I strongly disagree with the notion of a tanky, slow pikeman as it goes against everything a pikeman should strive to be, but that's a story for another time).

Long story short, give the halberdier a bigger wardrobe.

[Barristan]

AFK shielding is out of style. Now the cool kids go outside the shield wall and slash from there! Also, moving shield walls.

I 100% approve of this awesome tactic. That being said you are still a traitor to shield wall people everywhere and you should feel bad.

[Maroon]

A start could be to give the Halberdier access to the t3 infantry helmets, much like the Ranger, at 46 head armor, which are better than all but the most expensive pikeman helmets.

[Winter]

Additionally, the 3x weight carries with it two less armor than the Eastern Full Scale. I know it's a legendary, but it's also useable by all pikemen.

Heraldic Master Halberdier Mail and Eastern Full Scale currently have the same body armor stat of 58.  The leg armor (not very important when you crazy Pikemen still refuse to wear boots....) is 32 on Eastern Full Scale and 30 on Heraldic Master Halberdier.  Still, Halberdier armor should be slightly better to make up for the huge weight increase, yeah?

Other than that, totally agree with your post.

[Barristan]

[quote author=clickeverywhere link=topic=31914.msg198075#msg198075 date=1410940890]
Additionally, the 3x weight carries with it two less armor than the Eastern Full Scale. I know it's a legendary, but it's also useable by all pikemen.

Heraldic Master Halberdier Mail and Eastern Full Scale currently have the same body armor stat of 58.  The leg armor (not very important when you crazy Pikemen still refuse to wear boots....) is 32 on Eastern Full Scale and 30 on Heraldic Master Halberdier.  Still, Halberdier armor should be slightly better to make up for the huge weight increase, yeah?

Other than that, totally agree with your post.
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Not trying to shut down this discussion but I will add that we have already taken a look at this in the upcoming patch... Make new criticisms people.