Idea for formations

[Ozzy]

Formations.
Nords are quite disorganized when it comes to them. How many times have you annihilated the spawn wave, because the Nords where just rushing towards you without any sense of strategy?

Adding them to the 'NI' would not only it would provide some extent of realism, it also would make the game more fun and maybe even challenging.

I've got no experience in coding or modding, so I don't even know if this would be possible, but as I remember some of the 'Warband' mods did provide the formation feature, if not the native version itself.

So please tell me if this sounds like great idea or not.

P.S. Personally I think only spawn and challenge waves should have this feature, at least in 'Normal' game mode, because how can peasants with IQ of 1 can make any sensible strategies?

[Aleks]

Idea is nice but there is some problems like: coding the bots to understand orders . Who would command the bots? And player commander is bad idea.

[Greg]

It is good idea, but probably could work only on cavalery maps as they are big and we cant simply hide behind shielders and cades.

[Sargent Q]

What mods have you seen the Formations in?  Is it mods with bots, or is it mods with people fighting people?  I have hard SO many times that the Warband AI is so stupid that they can't do hardly anything.  I do not think that this idea can be implemented into NI without writing a whole new AI for the Bots.

[Aigle]

For instance PBOD mod has got bot formations implemented. (It's osp I think)
It'd be only usable on cav servers though.

[Ozzy]

I researched a bit about the possibilities and found this little mod:

Spoiler

http://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade/mods/3784/?tab=1&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fmountandblade%2Fajax%2Fmoddescription%2F%3Fid%3D3784%26preview%3D&pUp=1

(Python version)

Spoiler

http://www.mbrepository.com/file.php?id=2475

(standalone mod version)

A quote from the description,

The formations AI replaces Native AI. It makes decisions based primarily on army size rather than army composition. Each type of unit has different objectives. The intent was to make the AI smarter AND more proactive.

Here are some screens :

Spoiler

http://www.nexusmods.com/mountandblade/mods/3784/?tab=3&navtag=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nexusmods.com%2Fmountandblade%2Fajax%2Fmodimages%2F%3Fid%3D3784%26user%3D1&pUp=1

Also as Aigle suggested PBOD, would be a possible choice.

[Yokmen]

The Nexusmod is the same than the Captain Mod in Mount and Blade with Fire & Sword.
But these mods are a way to play Players + bots vs bots.
In the Captain mod, for example,  you're the leader of your squad and you lead some bots ( F1 to rush ; F2 to stay near you ; F3 to react defensively ) to fight the Nords whereas in NI you can't lead some bots. ( But both are a cooperation game )

I didn't undestand if you want the nords to be in formation ( They're coming together anyway, so it's a kind of formation ) or if you want a new mod ( NI_Cooperation_EU1 or NI_Captain_EU1 for example ) on which you can lead some bots.

Both would be great, but it would be hard to do this.

[Maroon]

Singleplayer bot AI is not the same as Multiplayer bot AI. Where in Native Singleplayer some armies would form up, multiplayer AI can only charge mindlessly. I'm no expert, but I'm fairly sure Singleplayer AI mods won't work for multiplayer.

[Ozzy]

The Nexusmod is the same than the Captain Mod in Mount and Blade with Fire & Sword.
But these mods are a way to play Players + bots vs bots.
In the Captain mod, for example,  you're the leader of your squad and you lead some bots ( F1 to rush ; F2 to stay near you ; F3 to react defensively ) to fight the Nords whereas in NI you can't lead some bots. ( But both are a cooperation game )

I didn't undestand if you want the nords to be in formation ( They're coming together anyway, so it's a kind of formation ) or if you want a new mod ( NI_Cooperation_EU1 or NI_Captain_EU1 for example ) on which you can lead some bots.

Both would be great, but it would be hard to do this.

Well originally I was thinking just giving the current Nords some more strategical formations, because their current formations are bit crap.

For example; If there is more infantry than archers, then the infantry would form 2 or 3 row shield wall and the archers would form 1 row behind them, potentially protecting themselves from Swadian archers and infantry that might be aiming for them.
Or if the units are only infantry, it would form three men shield wall, a bit as a snake, creating a big stress point for the Swadian shielders and barricades.
If all that remains are archers, they would form 4-5 men rows scattered across the map, making them a harder targets for the Swadian troops.
For the cavalry its obvious, wedge. The name of the formation speaks for itself.

Leading bots sounds quite fun as well, it never even came to my head and now as you thought of it, it does sound bit temping, I'm just curious if the Developers would be up for this challenge.

Singleplayer bot AI is not the same as Multiplayer bot AI. Where in Native Singleplayer some armies would form up, multiplayer AI can only charge mindlessly. I'm no expert, but I'm fairly sure Singleplayer AI mods won't work for multiplayer.

As I said I have no clue when it comes to coding or modding, but if the engine and the source code is the same, wouldn't it be possible to 'convert' the mod to be used in NI? Or it does not work that way?

[Timmix]

I'd just like to point out the fact that there are hundreds(?) of Nords in some waves against 16 Swadians.

I can see 3 scenarios unfolding if this were to be implemented:

1) Nords just stand there and look at their target and do not attack regardless of distance because they are too busy keeping a formation

2) They have the "Stand ground" position where they will form a loose formation and hold it but once a target gets too close they will all mob said target, kill them, then backpeddle to their position OR the Swadians can lure a group of them to the cades and kill them, essentially cheesing the round

3) Swadians pick them off from a distance and it just essentially becomes a target practice match

Personally I like that the numerically superior Nords mindlessly throw themselves at the numerically inferior Swadians because...well...why not?