selling ni stuff for real money

[Malong]

I personally see no problem with selling or buying gold. I have done it before and would do it again.

There are people who simply do not have the time to play 5-6 hours a day which you'd have to do to grind proper gear if you're not lucky enough, to loot a legendary. Why not let them buy gold and get the gear they want so they can enjoy the game  the way they like to. It will hardly bother you - person grinding -.

I've been playing NI since 2012 and never looted an legendary item. I got my gear worth millions of gold through playing and good trading.
If I was to start picking up Nordinvasion today, I'd probably play for a week and then drop it because now I do not like grinding for games anymore nor do I have the time for it.


To kip: encouraging people to exclude players from events or in general is shameful and you as an old player and now dev should really not say something like that. Not mature at all.

How is it fair that someone would be paid with real money because he simply got lucky or just played enough to save etc..? It doesn't make sense, you want to earn money through the game?

PS: *DING DING* SHAME  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJsOK9Tc60M !!!!! NSFW !!!!!!!!!

To be fully clear, he stated his argument for having the option to exchange something other than time for it. It never states anything about wanting to earn money from the game. The two are not equivalent statements in the least, though the situations occur together.

But to answer your first question: well it's not, however adding the element of trading for real money is not where justice leaves the equation. I could simplify your question and remove money as a variable: "how is it fair that someone would get a legendary drop simply because he got lucky or just played enough to save etc...?" With or without money, it wasn't fair in the first place.

This was serious, but it turned into something fun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ7vkmUNTPA

[Looter]

While Skaan may claim he does not want to earn money himself, the other side of the transaction from which he bought gold from speaks otherwise. One side of the party is making money from what is not theirs to collect from when they did NOT create the item, nor do they pay to the creators any shares of the money. Think of for example illegal DVD burning and selling, sure the person took time to make the copies and sell it, they however did not pay the the rightful owner or anything, which is what I see here. People making money on what is not theirs. You may have "earned" the gold or legendary items, but earning the item in game gives you no right to sell it. The rights to profit for items are exclusive with the creators.

[Mr.Peso]

While Skaan may claim he does not want to earn money himself, the other side of the transaction from which he bought gold from speaks otherwise. One side of the party is making money from what is not theirs to collect from when they did NOT create the item, nor do they pay to the creators any shares of the money. Think of for example illegal DVD burning and selling, sure the person took time to make the copies and sell it, they however did not pay the the rightful owner or anything, which is what I see here. People making money on what is not theirs. You may have "earned" the gold or legendary items, but earning the item in game gives you no right to sell it. The rights to profit for items are exclusive with the creators.

Making money of someone else's properties, thats exactly how I see it.

[Malong]

While Skaan may claim he does not want to earn money himself, the other side of the transaction from which he bought gold from speaks otherwise. One side of the party is making money from what is not theirs to collect from when they did NOT create the item, nor do they pay to the creators any shares of the money. Think of for example illegal DVD burning and selling, sure the person took time to make the copies and sell it, they however did not pay the the rightful owner or anything, which is what I see here. People making money on what is not theirs. You may have "earned" the gold or legendary items, but earning the item in game gives you no right to sell it. The rights to profit for items are exclusive with the creators.

He's not selling "the item" as created by the contributors of the game. Is someone selling the model, the game files, the database entries for the stats, the picture on the website? No. You would be selling an instance of the item(s) created, access to the instances of the item(s) for your account within the game.

The analogy of copies of artwork is not even close to this situation either. Again, you aren't selling the intellectual property, just access to instances of the item(s).

Did I really just have to explain this? Come on...

[Looter]

What is he doing? Making money from an item he didn't create nor has rights profit from, do I have to explain this?

When purchasing warband you buy the right to play a copy of the base game and access to mods, as well as being allowed to modify the game for nonprofit use, not the right to make money in any way from this game.

What right does one have to sell access to instances of this item created when it's used within warband, where no one but Taleworlds can make money from as it is within its game.

And Malong, the instance of the item in game, it's a compilation of all the things you mentioned, the end result of all those efforts put together and used n it's final form.

[Tjav]

well, i am the one that booted you out of the CC event skan, and i did it because i still think it is horrible, if the loots and rewards in this mod were dependant on skill, i would not really care too much, but the loot system in nordinvasion sucks from a certain point of view, its nice that everyone has an equal chance, but it is horrible that the people doing absolutely nothing has the same chance as the people carrying the runs, this does also mean that people who has the money, but dont want to grind out the actual items, may buy them with real money, this makes another problem, that the ingame market may now be controlled by the people willing to use money to get their items, i currently know of 2 people who sits on quite alot of wealth that they should not, just because they paid real life money, and by doing this, they actually destroy the market, since the random chance to earn wealth, have now instead of being luck, has been bought, this sickens me to the very core. i know alot of the elder players feel the same way, and i think its bullshit we removed the rule, but again, people who does it will still be less in my eyes, and as far as possible im gonna avoid dealing with them as much as possible.

[Malong]

What is he doing? Making money from an item he didn't create nor has rights profit from, do I have to explain this?

When purchasing warband you buy the right to play a copy of the base game and access to mods, as well as being allowed to modify the game for nonprofit use, not the right to make money in any way from this game.

I guess you missed the first two sentences, so I'll bold them for you:

He's not selling "the item" as created by the contributors of the game... You would be selling an instance of the item(s) created, access to the instances of the item(s) for your account within the game.

What right does one have to sell access to instances of this item created when it's used within warband, where no one but Taleworlds can make money from as it is within its game.

The right is being granted by the revocation of this rule.

[Looter]

Do you believe that the absence of a rule by people who never held the right or authority to allow the sale of these items? Nord Invasion is not the authority. Taleworlds is when it comes to anything within warbands domain. It remains that he is making money, profiting, selling, whatever wording you may wish to twist that it is not within his/her right to do so.

If one want to make money off warband in any way, go down the path of Napoleonic Wars, Viking Conquest as dlc and be Granted permission, buy rights to use the engine as FireAndSword or HanHunDynastySomething is doing in China to sell as standalone games, or go into trading cards on steam where Taleworlds is given cuts of each transaction.

[Malong]

Do you believe that the absence of a rule by people who never held the right or authority to allow the sale of these items? Nord Invasion is not the authority. Taleworlds is when it comes to anything within warbands domain. It remains that he is making money, profiting, selling, whatever wording you may wish to twist that it is not within his/her right to do so.

If one want to make money off warband in any way, go down the path of Napoleonic Wars, Viking Conquest as dlc and be Granted permission, buy rights to use the engine as FireAndSword or HanHunDynastySomething is doing in China to sell as standalone games, or go into trading cards on steam where Taleworlds is given cuts of each transaction.

Absence of a rule means that the action is not prohibited. What aspect of life do you need to be explicitly granted permissions by rules or laws? Also, I checked the EULA of NW (couldn't find it for Warband) and there is no section about items, accounts, etc being non-transferable. This is standard in online games, and typical language is something to the effect of this:

Spoiler

12. PROHIBITION ON ACCOUNT, CURRENCY AND ITEM TRANSFERS

Your Broadsword account is non-transferable. You may not sell, loan, lend, lease, barter, exchange, pledge, or hypothecate your online currency or Broadsword User account for any item of value unless expressly permitted by Broadsword. Any attempted transfer of your account, whether for consideration or not, shall be null and void and shall cause your account to be terminated without compensation. Under no circumstances shall you allow or permit any other person or third party to use your account as a means to loan, lend, or lease your account usage. Your account is valid only for use by the person who registered it, without exception.

Missing a section like this would then mean it's not prohibited.

[Looter]

Taleworlds EULA For M&B Warband, Well, Published by Paradox. I own a physical copy of M&B Warband so I went in the cd and pulled the file up.

Spoiler

IMPORTANT:  CAREFULLY READ THE FOLLOWING END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT.  BY CLICKING ON THE “I ACCEPT” BUTTON BELOW YOU WILL HAVE ACCEPTED AND AGREED TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT.  IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO ALL OF THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT, YOU MAY NOT INSTALL THE PROGRAM AND MUST IMMEDIATELY EXIT.

This software program and any files that are provided by Paradox Interactive AB to you by on-line transmission or otherwise to 'patch,' 'update,' or modify the software program, as well as any printed materials, on-line or electronic documentation, and any and all copies and derivative works of such software program and materials are the copyrighted work of Paradox Interactive AB or its suppliers. All use of the Program is governed by the terms of the End User License Agreement which is provided below ("License Agreement"). The Program is solely for use by end users according to the terms of the License Agreement. Any use, reproduction or redistribution of the Program not in accordance with the terms of the License Agreement is expressly prohibited.

END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT

1. Limited Use License. Paradox Interactive AB hereby grants, and by installing the Program you thereby accept, a limited, non-exclusive, non-transferable license and right to install and use the Program for your own personal, non-commercial use on either a home or portable computer. Your acquired rights are subject to your compliance with this Agreement. Any commercial use is prohibited. You are expressly prohibited from sub-licensing, renting, leasing or otherwise distributing the Software or rights to use the Software. In addition, the Program has a multi-player capability that allows users to utilize the Program over the Internet. Use of the Program over the Internet is subject to your acceptance of a Terms of Use Agreement. Paradox Interactive AB  reserves the right to update, modify or change the Terms of Use Agreement at any time.

2. Ownership. All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Program and any and all copies thereof (including but not limited to any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, and "applets" incorporated into the Program) are owned by Paradox Interactive AB or its licensors. The Program is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions, and other laws. All rights are reserved. The Program contains certain licensed materials, and Paradox Interactive AB's licensors may protect their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement. The Program may access websites owned, controlled by, or operated by licensed affiliates of Paradox Interactive AB and receive patches and/or updates to the Program from these websites. All patches, updates or other downloadable material used by, or incorporated into, the Program are the copyrighted property of Paradox Interactive AB or its licensors who reserve all rights therein, and shall be governed by the terms and conditions of this Agreement.

3. Responsibilities of End User.
 A. Subject to the Grant of License hereinabove, you may not, in whole or in part, copy, photocopy, reproduce, translate, reverse engineer, derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, create a source code equivalent of, create derivative works based on, or remove any proprietary notices or labels from the Program without the prior consent, in writing, of Paradox Interactive AB.
 B. The Program is licensed to you as a single product. Its component parts may not be separated for use on more than one computer.
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   (i) sell, grant a security interest in or transfer reproductions of the Program to other parties in any way, nor to rent, lease or license the Program to others without the prior written consent of Paradox Interactive AB;
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   (iii) use or allow third parties to use the Editor and the New Materials created thereby for commercial purposes, including, but not limited to, distribution of New Materials on a stand-alone basis or packaged with other software or hardware through any and all distribution channels, including, but not limited to, retail sales and on-line electronic distribution, without the express written consent of Paradox Interactive AB;
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5. Termination. This License Agreement is effective until terminated. You may terminate the License Agreement at any time by destroying the Program and any New Materials. Paradox Interactive AB may, at its discretion, terminate this License Agreement in the event that you fail to comply with the terms and conditions contained herein. In such event, you must immediately destroy the Program and any New Materials.

6. Customer Service/Technical Support. "Customer Service" as used herein may be provided to you by Paradox Interactive AB’s representatives by telephone and/or by electronic message (e-mail). "Technical Support" may be provided to you by Paradox Interactive AB by telephone, by electronic message (e-mail), or by posting of information related to known technical support issues on a website. Unless otherwise stated in the Program's packaging or in the Program's user manual, nothing herein shall be construed so as to place a duty upon Sierra to provide Customer Service or Technical Support via a toll-free telephone number for an unlimited period of time.

7. Duration of the "On-Line" Component of the Program. This Program contains an "on-line" component that allows you to utilize the Product over the Internet utilizing servers and software maintained by Paradox Interactive AB and or its affiliates.  Paradox Interactive AB or its licensors may, in its sole discretion, provide the servers and software technology necessary to utilize the "on-line" component of the Program, or Paradox Interactive AB may license to third parties the right to provide the servers and software technology necessary to utilize the "on-line" component of the Program. However, nothing contained herein shall be construed so as to place an obligation upon Paradox Interactive AB to provide the servers and software technology necessary to utilize the "on-line" component beyond the time that the Program is Out of Publication. The term "Out of Publication" as used herein shall mean that the Program is no longer being manufactured by Paradox Interactive AB.

8. Limited Warranty. Paradox Interactive AB expressly disclaims any warranty for the Program, Editor and Manual(s). The Program, Editor and Manual(s) are provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either express or implied, including, without limitation, the implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, or noninfringement. The entire risk arising out of use or performance of the Program and Manual(s) remains with the User.

9. Limitation of Liability. NEITHER PARADOX INTERACTIVE AB, NOR ITS SUBSIDIARIES OR AFFILIATES SHALL BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND RESULTING FROM THE USE OF THE PROGRAM, THE EDITOR OR AN AUTHORIZED ON-LINE GAME NETWORK, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER COMMERCIAL DAMAGES OR LOSSES. ANY WARRANTY AGAINST INFRINGEMENT THAT MAY BE PROVIDED IN SECTION 2-312(3) OF THE UNIFORM COMMERCIAL CODE AND/OR IN ANY OTHER COMPARABLE STATE STATUTE IS EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMED. FURTHER, PARADOX INTERACTIVE AB SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE LOSS OR DAMAGE TO PLAYER CHARACTERS, ACCOUNTS, STATISTICS OR USER PROFILE INFORMATION STORED ON AN AUTHORIZED ON-LINE GAME NETWORK. PARADOX NTERACTIVE AB SHALL NOT BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INTERRUPTIONS OF SERVICE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ISP DISRUPTIONS, SOFTWARE OR HARDWARE FAILURES, OR ANY OTHER EVENT WHICH MAY RESULT IN A LOSS OF DATA OR DISRUPTION OF SERVICE.

10. Miscellaneous. This License Agreement shall be deemed to have been made and executed in Sweden, and any dispute arising hereunder shall be resolved in accordance with Swedish law. You agree that any claim asserted in any legal proceeding by one of the parties against the other shall be commenced and maintained in any court located in Stockholm having subject matter jurisdiction with respect to the dispute between the parties. This License Agreement may be amended, altered or modified only by an instrument in writing, specifying such amendment, alteration or modification, executed by both parties. In the event that any provision of this License Agreement shall be held by a court or other tribunal of competent jurisdiction to be unenforceable, such provision will be enforced to the maximum extent permissible, and the remaining portions of this License Agreement shall remain in full force and effect. This License Agreement constitutes and contains the entire agreement between the parties with respect to the subject matter hereof and supersedes any prior oral or written agreements.

Will Finish Post Soon, If you wish to confirm this is the EULA for Mount and Blade: Warband, it is possible to email Talesworld for your own copy of the EULA to look at if you cannot find it elsewhere.

Excerpts of Note:

"All patches, updates or other downloadable material used by, or incorporated into, the Program are the copyrighted property of Paradox Interactive AB or its licensors who reserve all rights therein, and shall be governed by the terms and conditions of this Agreement." (2.Ownership)

" C. You are entitled to use the Program for your own use, but you are not entitled to:
(iii) use or allow third parties to use the Editor and the New Materials created thereby for commercial purposes, including, but not limited to, distribution of New Materials on a stand-alone basis or packaged with other software or hardware through any and all distribution channels, including, but not limited to, retail sales and on-line electronic distribution, without the express written consent of Paradox Interactive AB; " (3.Responsibility of the End User)

And there is much else to read, excerpts alone do not make up the entire eula.