Juggernaut suggestions

[Sargent Q]

Why do commando's need that crossbow proficiency? The reason it was added was to make hero's better than hybrids in every way possible.

[Opsan]

Well, I need to sink 750k to designate one of my characters to a hero class. Might that be one of the reasons a hero character might be better than a hybrid? I'm not sure, but that certainly makes sense to me.

To answer your question, without juggling, and with a designated healer, what is there for commando heroes to do with wall cades placed?

Even with that considered, the crossbow proficiency makes you effective from like an 8 meter range max. It's just there so people don't complain about commando heroes not getting any kills.

[Kaasovic]

To answer your question, without juggling, and with a designated healer, what is there for commando heroes to do with wall cades placed?

Since me creating a Hoplite class, and purely using it for stabbing, I have encountered the same. Melee classes are becoming less and less useful. Every map is just a spam of throwable spears and that aliendroid, it's not even fun anymore.

I highly doubt something can be done against it without ruining ranged classes, but I hope for the best.

[Elmo]

I agree with myself! Many times I've joined rag runs as a Zweihander and felt completely useless. The server was spamming walls with no SHC to slash over, and banterin was in the server doing what he does best so I pick up the best xbow i could find. Removing the juggs xbow proficency would make them even more unless than they already are...

Just a thought, is it possible to give the jug and unique ability to buff the Armour or iron flesh of nearby Swadians? This would make it more of a team based hero as apposed to a hero which maybe can take 1 extra hit in melee if you're lucky and that's basically it.. It was possible with the house banner (Which I have not seen in game for well over a year)

[Noname]

I thought about it a little and had my own thoughts, which brought me to the following in terms of making this hero more of a true Juggernaut:


Increased staggering resistence
Juggernauts seem (at least to me) like an unstoppable style of fighting. This is the reason why they should not be staggering as easily and keep cutting the crop - while still receiving damage.
This could be useful for facing multiple bots at once. For example: 2 rangers are able to kill a commando with a 2h sword if they don't leave enough time to block, even then the other can still land a hit. The Juggernaut's special resistance would allow it to bypass blocking/staggering and switch to offense in order to take out one by another.


Reduced damage taken while blocking
Juggernauts are not meant to only sit behind the shielders and wait for the bots to come running at their swords - they're meant to take on bots in the middle of action, because their strong condition allows them to. Now if said Jug is driven into a corner, it should still be able to get away and use defense as a last resort. Once you realize you underestimated the bots you took on to, there is no choice but to retreat. In order to make it back in one piece, blocking could lower the damage taken.

Note: Shields allow blocking melee attacks already, thus a nerf in shielding skill might balance this out.


"Most-Wanted" bonus
For Juggernauts to adapt to battle, not only armour plays a crucial role, but also the type and amount of enemies. Thus Juggernauts' armour/health could increase with either
- enemies around them (eg. number of bots within X meters)
- enemies it is targeted by (eg. 10 of 80 bots are heading for the Juggernaut)
Whatever buff might be applied to the Juggernaut, it has to be capped. It is pointless to take in 30 bots if only 5 can reach you at a time.


Smooth retreat
I'm not quite sure as to how (rather if) this could be implemented, but it's just an idea: Juggernauts are given the ability to maneuver through the crowd without being blocked by enemies. This could prevent the need for the blocking buff and enable Juggernauts to make it out of dangerous situations easily.


Late edit:
Health Regeneration
Juggernauts could be able to regenerate health by either
- killing bots (eg. X health for a hit, Y health for a kill)
- stacking regen rates (eg. killing light/medium/heavy bots = +X/Y/Z health per second)
- resting in the same spot (eg. 10 seconds without moving and damage for fast regen)
This would allow for either quick charge attacks or longer periods of battle.
Another variant of this might be adding some kind of "shield" to Juggernauts health. This shield regenerates on certain conditions (no damage, time limits, no movement/actions, no bots nearby, ...); once the shield is down, excess damage will be dealt directly to Juggernauts' health (which does not regenerate).


Those are still just suggestions, some of which may not be suitable at all, but this is what we're discussing anyway; Go ahead and tell me what you think about it

[Bobo]

I like this idea with health regeneration. That could be fun and would make the class stand out.

[Leandero]

I have seen many ideas that I like, Noname's suggestions make most sense to me. I would like it if a Dev or somebody else with knowledge of the game engine could confirm what can or cannot be done suggestion wise. That way we could focus on the suggestions that are achievable in the NI mod.

Regarding the crossbow/throwing skill: I do realise this, I have all Inf heroes myself and end up throwing/shooting a crossbow regularly. I'll edit that part out.

[Kriegstofu]

the high athletics on juggernaut is to balance the heavy weight of the armors i think

also pls make lighter armors for aventuriers

[DR.]

the high athletics on juggernaut is to balance the heavy weight of the armors i think

also pls make lighter armors for aventuriers

Def and the 12m armor are 32w same as gothic etc..  pol/leg armors are lighter still.

[keru_90]

Reinforced half plate is basically a craftable gothic. Enough reasons for me to play the class