The Infantry Problem 2

[Bobo]

I must say I agree with Sir Baron on this. It's just too many walls in the runs that make infantry obsolete. it is the easiest way to wall off and spam projectiles. So this is what we do. I can remember times when walls were rare and we used to have 4 shielders with 3 slashers to prevent Nords from getting in and wipe us all. And we used to wipe pretty often if a shielder got killed. On the old Castleyard map we used the wall to cover shielder from enemy ranged shooting from the side, and to close the gateway for a short time for Nords to gather behind and then to fire the barrel standing by and hit as many of them as possible. But not to cade off. We saw no need. The runs were much more demanding and difficult and we had a wipe in 50% of rag runs. Still that was tones of fun.

[Sir Baron]

So do Pikemen need a buff to because half of what they do is melee?
Half of what Infantry do is melee and half is shield so why does Infantry need a buff yet pike is fine?

[Kaasovic]

So do Pikemen need a buff to because half of what they do is melee?
Half of what Infantry do is melee and half is shield so why does Infantry need a buff yet pike is fine?

What is this based on? I personally only use melee on pikeman if the enemy is a direct threat to me.

What I think is a better solution to the infantry "problem" is to mitigate damage received from bots on harder difficulties.

[Sir Baron]

And so make cades even better?
The less damage wave 11 does to Infantry the less it does to cades and the more cades will be used

And that is based on pike being used for melee more then anyone but Infantry also I believe they deal second most melee damage

From what I know about Infantry from playing it more then any other class in game
It is fine as is

But people still hold that it's been replaced by wall cades even though walls
1.Can not be healed
2.Can not corner bosses
3.Can not be slashed at well
4.Can not be tomed in for a last minute run save
And now have the same HP as SHCs or close to

[Kaasovic]

And so make cades even better?
The less damage wave 11 does to Infantry the less it does to cades and the more cades will be used

There is no proof that reduced damage to infantry will make barricades obsolete.
Infantry is still being vulnerable to an overwhelming force; charging out without a solid strategy will still get you killed. It's not like the enemies will glance of an infantry troop with the best armour.

And that is based on pike being used for melee more then anyone but Infantry also I believe they deal second most melee damage

My view is that pikemen mainly use throwables and avoid melee. This is based on personal observation.
It is true that pikeman is the secondary infantry based character, however that does not mean that pikemen needs damage reduction as well (personal opinion).

From what I know about Infantry from playing it more then any other class in game
It is fine as is

(...)

This is still your opinion. With six pages of replies it's not too hard to see that something might be wrong with the current state of the infantry character.
I suggest adding a poll to summarize the views of the community, after all this mod is played by more then one person.

[Sir Baron]

What I want is something more then just I can die...

More then half the replies have been about how you can get 2-3 by top tier bots
Or one hit by top tier rag bots

It's the same with Ranged believe it or not
The only thing that is changes is the skill needed
Peeking needs less skill then open fighting which is why it does not need a buff
Last night at the VM event we had a Legionnaire top killer with out any throwing
Why? Because he knew how to play
I find it hard to think Infantry needs a buff when I am on par with MP with rups when not shielding

[TerrorBite]

I must say I agree with Sir Baron on this. It's just too many walls in the runs that make infantry obsolete. it is the easiest way to wall off and spam projectiles. So this is what we do. I can remember times when walls were rare and we used to have 4 shielders with 3 slashers to prevent Nords from getting in and wipe us all. And we used to wipe pretty often if a shielder got killed. On the old Castleyard map we used the wall to cover shielder from enemy ranged shooting from the side, and to close the gateway for a short time for Nords to gather behind and then to fire the barrel standing by and hit as many of them as possible. But not to cade off. We saw no need. The runs were much more demanding and difficult and we had a wipe in 50% of rag runs. Still that was tones of fun.

Forcing infantry to be used to get anywhere isn't a good thing. Normally the cade/tome juggler was an infantry, why don't we just bring back support item despawns to help increase the inf count while we're at it?

But also think about runs that don't have 16 players. How can a 6 player run get anywhere if 3/4 rg's are required, also leaving no backup shielders or healers. It might also force kiting, where no one would want to be inf.

[Sir Baron]

Umm
SHC's are a thing and have about the same stats as Walls

I don't want to remove cades
But walls are what has removed Infantry
Cades should support and aid Shields not replace them
Also are you talking about those NA runs that wipe do to just having wall cades?

[ON_Glenn]

What I want is something more then just I can die...

More then half the replies have been about how you can get 2-3 by top tier bots
Or one hit by top tier rag bots

It's the same with Ranged believe it or not
The only thing that is changes is the skill needed
Peeking needs less skill then open fighting which is why it does not need a buff
Last night at the VM event we had a Legionnaire top killer with out any throwing
Why? Because he knew how to play
I find it hard to think Infantry needs a buff when I am on par with MP with rups when not shielding

Comparing something with rups.. only 3-4 people even have that weapon. I have to agree with kaas believe it or not.

[Kaasovic]

(...)
Last night at the VM event we had a Legionnaire top killer with out any throwing
Why? Because he knew how to play
I find it hard to think Infantry needs a buff when I am on par with MP with rups when not shielding

I find this very hard to believe and without any evidence proving this was achieved with melee only, I will simply not take this in consideration of my current stance.

Please provide us with external factors that may have helped this Legionnaire in his accomplishment.