The Infantry Problem 2

[Sir Baron]

I know it's trying to prove a point but this
Terrerbite on page 12

"well shielders/inf currently are being used, isn't the issue more that they cant do much else (surplus inf sitting around waiting for admin to tell them to be useful)?"-TerrerBite on page 12
Kind of under mines it
He just said that there are to many yet says that this would force people to play Infantry

Finally someone asks that

The reason is simple
It won't but you can slash over SHC's giving Infantry something to do
It is also a lot easier to change a cade line of SHC's then just a set of 10 walls if a shielder joins

Also I don't think I said anything to this part so I will now
"If this is the case nerfing cades would increase the number of shielders, but would it really give those surplus inf anything more to do, or stop them from being present?"
Yes in fact it would as I have said Infantry is supposed to shield and slash and to that end any who are not shielding can slash
If you have to many Infantry in sever for that then that would say Infantry is fine as is

[Winter]

I know it's trying to prove a point but this
Terrerbite on page 12

"well shielders/inf currently are being used, isn't the issue more that they cant do much else (surplus inf sitting around waiting for admin to tell them to be useful)?"-TerrerBite on page 12
Kind of under mines it
He just said that there are to many yet says that this would force people to play Infantry

Not really. Giving people shielding to do when they don't want to shield because it is not fun or engaging is not a great way to fix the class. He also wasn't saying that this would force people to play infantry in the hypothetical situation, he was saying, as I just explained, "just because a class is necessary to win does not mean it is an engaging or good class to play."

Finally someone asks that

The reason is simple
It won't but you can slash over SHC's giving Infantry something to do
It is also a lot easier to change a cade line of SHC's then just a set of 10 walls if a shielder joins

I disagree on the first point completely. I am having flashbacks of all the commands and red text (not to mention reports) to infantry trying to slash over Short Heavy Barricades when the team fully walled off... "_____ stop destroying the barricades!!!!!!1!!!!one!!!!!"

[Sir Baron]

So why is there a surplus of Infantry is it is not fun or engaging?

My point about shielding is I get tired after a long days work and really don't mind getting XP gold and mats for just sitting there
I don't remember a time when SHC's used to wall off I came in just when walls started to replace Infantry and have not liked them sense
But this would help if for no other reason then it is much easier to adjust a line of SHC's for shielders if they join
Lastly maybe I'm just dumb for thinking this would help but I joined NI and watched walls remove the use of Infantry very fast
It was not that people stopped playing Infantry
That is proved by this page
But rather that Walls where placed and no room was left for the Infantry
A limit to walls I feel would help this because it was the spam of walls that caused this

[TerrorBite]

I know it's trying to prove a point but this
Terrerbite on page 12

"well shielders/inf currently are being used, isn't the issue more that they cant do much else (surplus inf sitting around waiting for admin to tell them to be useful)?"-TerrerBite on page 12
Kind of under mines it
He just said that there are to many yet says that this would force people to play Infantry

Finally someone asks that

The reason is simple
It won't but you can slash over SHC's giving Infantry something to do
It is also a lot easier to change a cade line of SHC's then just a set of 10 walls if a shielder joins

Also I don't think I said anything to this part so I will now
"If this is the case nerfing cades would increase the number of shielders, but would it really give those surplus inf anything more to do, or stop them from being present?"
Yes in fact it would as I have said Infantry is supposed to shield and slash and to that end any who are not shielding can slash
If you have to many Infantry in sever for that then that would say Infantry is fine as is

The wall height is a decent point that it does give the inf an option if no projectiles are on the ground. Currently there is no option when there are walls.

This can work to some extent if the slashers position themselves carefully and only stab, but they often don't as winter said. 
2hs tend to be quite short as well, and SHCs can often be hit or shot over by nords. 
Also keep in mind that this is only relevant for high tier runs that would otherwise involve walls. In this case most players would bring in high tier projectiles, which do substantially more damage than the infantry, who often blocks their throws/shots as well. 

But despite all of that, how would this impact runs that don't have walls (approximately half the runs i see have walls). Inf are still quite useless compared to every other class in these situations, except for the one shielder and maybe a slasher.
but almost always the ranged nords are left to ranged swadians, and the inf are too scared to poke their heads out.

I think the infantry problem is more of a problem with infantry overall, opposed to just infantry multi-millionaires.

---

So why is there a surplus of Infantry is it is not fun or engaging?

Because many people only have 1 class, or they're sick of being archer or w/e all the time and want to try something different.

[Sir Baron]

So when are you playing that there are not walls? Normal does not count

[TerrorBite]

I rarely play normal. Mainly hard and sometimes rag. Often there are not 16 players on and there are few top tier players to carry us.

[DR.]

So when are you playing that there are not walls? Normal does not count

It's very hard to say that as you have top tri gear your self. Make a new I'd join a sever not a plained run with people in ts etc.. and see what gear you have. My last 16/16 hard maybe had 2 tome bringers and 1 wall bringer. 

Yes we beat hard. Yes we had more than 3-4 inf being rg, jugg and zwei. No walls did not help in anyway that a shc could not.

[Bobo]

Woody seems to confirm that the run can be successful with no walls if there's enough infantry to hold the enemy.
@Winter: I'd say an important difference in cading off between wall and SHC is the length, you'd need 2 x SHC to close the gap that you can close with 1 Wall. Ofc there are maps that seem to be designed to be successfully caded off with SHC and in those cases SHC is much better (like Caravan Ambush, walls are no good to be used in the usual cade spot, it is just perfect for SHC) and some maps in the contrary (like Trader's Valley that can be caded off with 1 Wall but you'd need 2 x SHC).

[Black_Kitten*]

After last buff  SHC will better then Wall. Infantry is happy?
becouse cading with SHC nords destroy more time because the wall is more often hit by the Nords

maybe need remove - 1000hp for shc for greater benefit from infantry lol

sometime ago  my CTS kill Nord Ranger with one shot in body, but now my  for DB need 2 shots. Sometime ago my Heavy Shturmhaube save my ass if i got headshot from any range bot in Hard run, but now my best helmet for MP no save me if i got headshot from the weakest range nord in Hard run. And sometime ago did not create such themes with such problems "The Infantry Problem"

I do not understand why the developers decided that the constant complication with each new update will be good for the players. On the contrary! If players do not have fun  with their all heroes and their stuff, then this is the first reason why they will not start the game any more

PS: Sry for my English ) ty

[Bobo]

I think the truth lays somewhere in between (as usually). If it is too hard there are players that are discouraged to go on but it works the opposite as well. If it becomes too easy there are other players who'd find it boring (me myself belonging to this group).
The Devs have a very difficult task to keep things balanced which is probably impossible to do the way everyone'd be satisfied.