Build points

[MightyIrishMan]

I have been watching this thread and been very confused by it.  VM is still doing our weekly rag events and i have not run into this problem yet.  Only time i have seen this is in the Halloween servers when it had just come out.  

Would someone mind telling me what maps and what strategy they are seeing this problem with?

Event vs  pub runs ?????

[Sargent Q]

Given the fact that we are rarely if ever full, It would be more likely that we just die to not having the cades brought in at all. But that doesn't happen. If we have problems with cades its because of Thor. and is normally restricted to that wave itself.

With the reaction that some people had in this thread, It sounds like this is happening most of the time. In which case it should be fairly easy to give the info i was asking for.

[Malong]

VM is still doing our weekly rag events and i have not run into this problem yet.

Don't you play Normal on your events? I guess towards the end, but still.

Comparing events with public runs isn't great. This heavily affects public runs. Often there are too many barricades that the team can't build for the important waves, or too few points to build the barricades you brought in because the team had to use more barricades and points on earlier waves before the server was full and set up efficiently.

Would someone mind telling me what maps and what strategy they are seeing this problem with?

It's not a specific map nor instance. In general, it happens before Thor and Odin when you have 0-6 build points for the wave.

But anyway, why is this system of abstract points required to build something that you already brought in? Do you somehow acquire knowledge of how to build more of the exact same barricades as you survive longer and/or kill more enemies? Of course not. None of this system makes any sense.

[Kaasovic]

But anyway, why is this system of abstract points required to build something that you already brought in? Do you somehow acquire knowledge of how to build more of the exact same barricades as you survive longer and/or kill more enemies? Of course not. None of this system makes any sense.

The build point were introduced to limit the amount of barricades being build. Before the support overhaul was integrated it was very common to see people walling of everything and turn it into a ranged fest, basically requiring no skill at all. Alternative methods of achieving the same cause were looked into as well, I.E. removing ranged classes, removing barricades, etc..
I think you are more then capable to view this matter in a more objective way instead of the ideology you are currently blinded by and understand that rangedspamming is not something the development team wants.

As for the current placement system (spawning the construction site beneath you); we are aware of the limitations that this system offers and we are looking into ways that to improve it. Sadly I am very busy with my job at the moment and would like to apologise that such feature might take a while before it is implemented.

[JG]

I think you are more then capable to view this matter in a more objective way instead of the ideology you are currently blinded by and understand that rangedspamming is not something the development team wants.

This is as much blind ideology as anything else in the thread. I'm sure the dev team can look at the player data and control for the necessary external factors, but having been around NI for a while, this is by far the most dead I have seen it. And anecdotally, the support overhaul has been a consistent theme I've heard regarding why people have stopped playing.

I understand that ranged-spamming might not be the dev team's preferred play style, but at a certain point the size of the player base doesn't afford the luxury of wholesale changes which preference ideology over community engagement. Ideology isn't worth much if we can't fill up a single public server.

[Malong]

The build point were introduced to limit the amount of barricades being build. Before the support overhaul was integrated it was very common to see people walling of everything and turn it into a ranged fest, basically requiring no skill at all. Alternative methods of achieving the same cause were looked into as well, I.E. removing ranged classes, removing barricades, etc..
I think you are more then capable to view this matter in a more objective way instead of the ideology you are currently blinded by and understand that rangedspamming is not something the development team wants.

Ideology that currently blinds me? Even when public servers were based on ranged classes, Trickster events always used RGs and shield walls...

Anyway, was the lack of challenge really a concern or focus? It's a tower defense game, most people aren't playing to test their skills. Also, this is an especially huge mixed message when the power level is pushed via new tiers of items, upgrades, and the mass availability of such. Meanwhile you simultaneously punish us for taking advantage of the benefits you gave us in the first place.

[Julia.]

Before the overhaul you had to tome if you needed more cades and plenty of tomes were around. If you had a lack of tomes, you mostly had enough cades to cade savely enough to not waste any tomes.

Now on public the issue is (unless you're super-lucky) that there, in average are not more than two tomebringers. Lots of players are able to bring T2 Cades which aint possible to build due to the lack of build points, resulting in ppl dieing when nords break through. This either results in one of the few tomes been used or a lack of ppl killing nords, mostly resulting in a wipe.

I've personally seen myself forced to play on a tome-bringer rather than one of my cade-bringers. It aint to bad for me but sometimes can be annoying if, to be somehow able to finish a run, I have to switch my chars around.

[Berkay]

TIER 2 Short Heavy Barricades better than tier 3 walls cuz ragnarok wave 15 odin's chosens Can break in 3 strokes Nerf Thor boost build points

[Forward]

Ah, nice ideology you have here. But maybe your dev team ideology is wrong, if so many people here against it? Personally I liked this mod because it was casual and relaxing. If I would wanted challenging gameplay there are a lot of other M&B mods and other games.
All recent changes were terrible for me. Adding OP health to infantry, new useless bots and maps, and building system is broken now.
Instead of fixing real problems plaguing this mod for ages. But since it's dead who cares now, new building system has made all other problems insignificant, well done.

[Cut-Me-Own-Throat-Dibbler]

The build point were introduced to limit the amount of barricades being build. Before the support overhaul was integrated it was very common to see people walling of everything and turn it into a ranged fest, basically requiring no skill at all. ...

Wouldn't it make sense to dynamically adjust the building points which are added every wave based on the number of people on the server? Or the number of engineers and their skill level? Or the game mode? As it is right now (with a flat 6 points per wave), less populated servers almost never run out of building points, whereas full servers (at least public ones) seem to have more issues with that. Which isn't all too surprising considering that larger Nord waves do much more damage to cades whereas the pool of newly available building points is the same no matter if it's going to be a handful or a large horde of Nords.