suggestions for Ranger/Halb and Jugg

[DR.]

Point (1)

Extra Hp.

If Zwei/Rg have it even more so with Leg i think its what Ranger/Halb need to stand out. Ye the other 2 sniper heroes need something and hoplite but that's for another day/post 

Being able to tank just the 1 bolt or arrow as more of a ranged class would be fun. Its not op at all as anyone with Leg or even Jugg can tell you. 

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Point (2)

I've been thinking maybe jugg could have some of the extra hp it has on top of the normal one. So 50% on the bottom and 50% on top.

I was personly for this when the topic started as if it's on top its more of a skill thing vs being under the normal hp. Some games i never have gone black bar so never ended up using the "skill of inf". 

Putting it on top with a higher rate of fill i feel will make it harder yes but a lot more rewarding. If you are any good at using a shield or just parrying you can heal your self vs waiting for unreliable heals or just nonexistent heals.

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Point (3)

A)
As said for the 4th time or maybe 5th Ranger/Halb should have the damage reduction like Jugg. 

B)
Damage reduction for Ranger/Halb/Jugg should be on each part of the armour. 

So in total, we have 

30% of the buff on the helm
40% of the buff on the armour
20% of the buff on the gloves
10% of the buff on the boots 

example 


3% Damage reduction helm
4% Damage reduction armour
2% Damage reduction gloves
1% Damage reduction boots 

[Kriegstofu]

Repeaterman could also get a bit of a buff on health (+5 IF) , as this class is exposed more to open fire than other crossbowmen who only peek for one shot each

[DR.]

Repeaterman could also get a bit of a buff on health (+5 IF) , as this class is exposed more to open fire than other crossbowmen who only peek for one shot each

For someone that has chosen marksman and repeater they seem fine other than chosen having bolts to its name. Give repeater its own bolts with the same damage or a bit less with more ammo as its well a repeater. 

They should have the same ish stats as each other and both of them are not in anyway a "bad class" already.

[Forward]

Survivability of some classes needs nerf not a buff. Remove infantry bonus HP. OP as hell.

[Kriegstofu]

Survivability of some classes needs nerf not a buff. Remove infantry bonus HP. OP as hell.

this bonus  hp actually makes inf survive certain waves like mercenary ballistamen. otherwise inf would be almost uselesss on waves such as these

[Peleus]

Inf (not legio.) are useless af

[Sir Baron]

Survivability of some classes needs nerf not a buff. Remove infantry bonus HP. OP as hell.

this bonus  hp actually makes inf survive certain waves like mercenary ballistamen. otherwise inf would be almost uselesss on waves such as these

He's been asking for Infantry to just be removed for a long time now

I don't believe he really think's it OP or he would use it

[Forward]

Survivability of some classes needs nerf not a buff. Remove infantry bonus HP. OP as hell.

this bonus  hp actually makes inf survive certain waves like mercenary ballistamen. otherwise inf would be almost uselesss on waves such as these

He's been asking for Infantry to just be removed for a long time now

I don't believe he really think's it OP or he would use it

It's so OP so no fun using it at all, feels like cheating.

[DR.]

It's so OP so no fun using it at all, feels like cheating.

Been thinking about this

I feel that with repeaterman so I think i can understand were you maybe coming from but not fully. 

I dislike repeaterman as a class for the fact it takes the least skill out of any class to use yet players that have no skill are rewarded for picking it. Overall i think repeaterman has the lowest skill cap out of the 16 yet its reward far excess heroes that take far more skill to play and arguably give not much to the table in stats/game play.

For example 
In saying this i think we can agree using a 2h over a 1h and shield is more fitted for someone that more skill. For this reasoning, i think Legacy should arguably be better than Exc which it is. 
Nothing is stopping a good player from going a 1h and shield but why should a hero be easier to use and be just as good. (or better in Legs case)

(1)Reward the player for picking the melee class with less armour. 
(2)Reward the player for picking the ranged class with less armour. 
(3)Reward the player for picking a class that takes more skill to learn and play well.

That's what the Ni heroes should be i think. 
For how good Warden is idk where Ranger should be that's a hard decision but arguably Senti or Sentry should be the "best sniper hero" in stats given its low armour for being a melee class.

Yea i think no matter what Warden and Mp will be picked more than any pike/sniper hero just because of they focuses on ranged when having low armour. 
Giving its classes that have low armour I would think the melee heroes would get bonus stats given how Ni is played.
  

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This ranking will be going from (1) being the easiest to "master" and (16) being the hardest to use that hero's skill.
This is not a list of how good the heroes are atm. This is a list of how hard it is to master.
I'm not talking about how good let's say Mp is at Polearms... The odder is on the idea of the hero so Mp being a thrower.  

1. Repeaterman - All you do is stand a click into a wave
   
2. Master Peltast - Same as repeater. Need to aim a bit but being a throwing spear it does not need to hit the head. 
   
3. Chosen Marksman - Half the time you are reloading but at least you need to aim. 
   
4. Royal Guard - A good Rg is one that's not afk but at the same time basically gets no kills by playing safe to save the team. 
   
5. Warden - The rate of fire makes it so you just aim at head hight. It does take longer to master than Mp but it's still one of the easiest heroes to use.
   
6. Legionnaire - At this moment in time i feel its throwing and 1h skill are on the same level ish. 1h skill is a bit difficult to master... If it only had this i would put it at 10 ish but the throwing is 2nd ingame atm.  
   
7. Pavise Champion - Like Rg a good player that goes Pc does the same tactics. Almost AKF
   
8. Juggernaut - To master this class you need to understand every bot in how much damage you may entail from getting into a fight. You need to know when to go in and when to stay back. 
   
9. Halberdier - Same as Jugg almost
   
10. Ranger - Same as Jugg Halb almost
    
11. Zweihander - Being a 2h hero your aim is to have a shield/tank class that can take most of the blows. "glass" cannon
    
12. Marauder - Being a Polearm hero your aim is to have a shield/tank class that can take most almost all of the blows. Glass cannon (3)   
    
13. Sentry - Being a 2h hero your aim is to have a shield/tank class that can take most all of the blows. Glass cannon (2)   
    
14. Aventurier - Being a 1h hero and having ok armour... It would be ok at about hard. Glass cannon (4)    
    
15. Sentinel - Being a 1h hero and having ok shit armour... It would be ok at about hard normal. Glass cannon (1)   
    
16. Hoplite - The 1h mode for 1 you can't block and using a thrusting weapon is harder than a slashing one. Glass cannon (5)   
    

I'm only considering the main reason to pick each hero.
I didn't add daggers to Mp for the fact we all know a nerf is coming.
Basic skill in this list is not important. Basic like Rg/Pc armour or Hoplite shielding. I may make some exceptions to this like comparing Aventurier vs Sentinel in armour/hp.

An example I think Mara is not "op" but its 4th-7th or so. I think a nerf in throwing would be a good fit. You could say the same with Mp maybe it gets a nerf in Polearms? idk that's not up to me.


I personally think the easier the class is the more avg of a class it should be. 

Atm, i think Hoplite with its weird 1h animation that's hard to use + you cant block + its a spear should be one of the best classes. In saying that i don't mean "op" i mean it will give the highest reward for playing it WELL.


I've said to Terath in Pms not too long ago what i think you could do with Leg + Avent + Senti.

K

Why does Leg need to be number (1) in 1h skill? (if you plan to nerf it)

Atm its Leg > Avent > Senti.

Been thinking about this for a long time but i would be ok with it being the other way around. The lower the armour the better the 1h skill.

Reward the player for picking the melee class with less armour. 
Reward the player for picking a class that takes more skill.

In saying this i think the 1hs should be about the same in stats but the skill of the hero goes up.

Stinger 66c 111 speed for it being short. (260 1h skill)
Reb at 66c 107 speed. (250 1h skill  
Exc at 66c 107 speed. (240 1h skill)

Even then I don't think that's enough for Senti and Avent as i think both should still have a shield to them and the same shielding skill as leg (8). 

Either make Vigilance and (maybe Noble Bastion) + house craftables for - Hoplite, Senti and Avent 

or

Make Noble Bastion and the house craftable for Avent then add a new shield for Senti.


Avent needs some lighter armour and maybe even more athletics. Side note could use the Leather Overmail as a model then get a halb armour that works with that helm they have.

Senti could have an armour with Sentry like a version of Imp/Checkered so not less weight but a bit more armour. Sentry should maybe have more Hp as it doesn't have a shield to its name but at the same time, i feel 2hs are so useful vs 1hs so maybe senti could get even more in something. Senti could have mini hammers or picks that would be fun.

I did edit that a bit Terath but the basic lines are there.



Also like i said to him.

"The question is do you buff the other heroes or do you nerf this group ("op ones")... Hard to say if anything i would maybe go down the path of the nerf but then you have salty people when you are just trying to make the game harder... 


Gl with whatever you plan to do that's for sure." 

[Forward]

This game doesn't need 16 classes at all.
Your difficulty rating is nonsense, assuming you're talking about using all class weapons, which are 90% useless in this mod.
Classes should be distinctive and usefull, based on role. There are 3 roles: ranged damage dealer, shielder, slasher. 3 way of dealing ranged damage, might keep 2 specialisations for crossbow same as now. 2 way to slash, with 2h and with a pike. 1 kind of shielders. All melee classes should be able to bring crossbow not to be useless in pub runs. Can keep hoplite as jack-of-all-trades class.
Therefore it is:
1. Archer
2. Repeaterman
3. CM
4. MP
5. Zwei (+add him xbow skills)
6. Mara
7. RG
8. Hoplite

Neither class should have bonus HP as well. Then I will call that balanced game.