Adjusting Wave Boss Spawn Mechanics

[fantasyboy]

Existing items getting stat/model changes is where I'm very interested in where that goes.. If classes got this many changes be foolish to think items themselves are getting 0 changes excited to see what happens.

yeah we found that there are small changes in some armours show in website already.
For example:
Swadian Heavy Mail 22 Weight 60 body armour 30 leg armour ever.
but now it become 15 Weight 60 body armour 30 leg armour. nice to see further changes.

[Malong]

We have a precedent for making not just the game harder but rag itself harder when needed with out adding a new difficulty

Sure, so I'll rephrase: would you want higher difficulty mode with no changes to drops and rates whatsoever?

If your answer is yes, then congratulations, you're a real gamer that wants a challenge. Why you are seeking this in a solved PvE tower defense game is a completely different question, but let's stop there.

If your answer is no, then what you want is neither difficulty nor challenge. I bring this up because I highly suspect that the answer for most of this mod's players is no. See previous Halloween events.

[DR.]

...in a solved...

Who said its solved? This 12? 13? idk year old mod is getting updates to game play not even a mouth ago in terms of hero stat changes that what brought back how many old players

Not to mention the 2nd biggest change to end game being with have an item sink now 1st being upgrades? idk debatable

My care level for my suggestion is a solid 3 out of 10 I dont think it [needs] to be done I just think it [should]. If the point of an update to this game is to retain players or bring in new/old players its either 1. change game play so it's refreshing so its something new to experience or 2. character changes or Ideally both

Not everyone has the autism level to play the exact same slot machine for five years straight with zero changes

[Malong]

...in a solved...

Who said its solved? This 12? 13? idk year old mod is getting updates to game play not even a mouth ago in terms of hero stat changes that what brought back how many old players

The gameplay is solved. This has nothing to do with class stats or items. In the nicest way possible, reread the sentence.

---

Not everyone has the autism level to play the exact same slot machine for five years straight with zero changes

Not everyone has the ADHD-level to do some activity for [insert arbitrary variable time interval] without changes.

[Berkay]

...in a solved...

Who said its solved? This 12? 13? idk year old mod is getting updates to game play not even a mouth ago in terms of hero stat changes that what brought back how many old players

Not to mention the 2nd biggest change to end game being with have an item sink now 1st being upgrades? idk debatable

[Malong]

...in a solved...

Who said its solved? This 12? 13? idk year old mod is getting updates to game play not even a mouth ago in terms of hero stat changes that what brought back how many old players

Not to mention the 2nd biggest change to end game being with have an item sink now 1st being upgrades? idk debatable

[Hamsterino]

Not a bad idea imo, but making a boss spawn only half the time greatly reduces loot chance and therefore drops in general (at least if the loot system makes any sense at all)

Loot chance can always change 

Be interested as an indicator "of the boss spawned got a X% chance someone is going to loot we need to tome"

My biggest problem with this suggestion in general is making this game easier sounds lame.. maybe it's nostalgia but 10 years ago we didn't have this power creep in items where in every single game I feel like I'm seeing multiple people bring in upgrades

People's gear is dramatically better at what point do the bots get a buff they deserve

I agree with the power creep comment. I'm not for making the game easier. With more legendaries dropping the last few years and more mats longer than that, I think making the bots more powerful with better xp would be a better alternative.

Out of curiosity, would you want a more difficult mode with no drops whatsoever?

If your answer is yes, then congratulations, you're a real gamer that wants a challenge. Why you are seeking this in a solved PvE tower defense game is a completely different question, but let's stop there.

If your answer is no, then what you want is neither difficulty nor challenge. I bring this up because I highly suspect that the answer for most of this mod's players is no. See previous Halloween events.

A higher difficulty mode without any drops would be nice to have besides the "normal" servers, as a challenge (like the halloween challenge). As an idea, why not bring back 20 waves, so there's 5 extra waves to make actually finishing a run considerably harder, which I'd find a lot more entertaining than just making the existing bots more challenging. I believe it's not in the interest of the mod to be able to solo the hardest possible mode, even though I'd be the first to try. Either way, bots have to become stronger compared to the player, since we can all agree the players are too OP.

[DR.]

A higher difficulty mode without any drops would be nice to have besides the "normal" servers, as a challenge (like the halloween challenge). As an idea, why not bring back 20 waves, so there's 5 extra waves to make actually finishing a run considerably harder, which I'd find a lot more entertaining than just making the existing bots more challenging.

Making runs talking longer as a form of difficulty isn't the best game design in my opinion. Its punishing the person that may only have 2 hours they can game each week for an example

If this hypothetical run takes a little bit over an hour to complete and this guy can only game 2 hours every week.. ehh

1. you cant actually finish 2 full runs because you only have the time for 1 and a bit
2. If they wipe from a silly mistake on wave idk 17 It takes a longer amount of time to get up to that wave 17 again vs wave 13 etc

Making things difficult in terms of combat where players skill is actually rewarded and more importantly, in this game, communication I think is better suited for the majority of players.

I believe it's not in the interest of the mod to be able to solo the hardest possible mode, even though I'd be the first to try

Kiting has been frowned upon from the very start I don't see that changing any time soon sadly... This game is been about "team work" yet we dont even need to talk to each other in game at this point

[Hamsterino]

A higher difficulty mode without any drops would be nice to have besides the "normal" servers, as a challenge (like the halloween challenge). As an idea, why not bring back 20 waves, so there's 5 extra waves to make actually finishing a run considerably harder, which I'd find a lot more entertaining than just making the existing bots more challenging.

Making runs talking longer as a form of difficulty isn't the best game design in my opinion. Its punishing the person that may only have 2 hours they can game each week for an example

If this hypothetical run takes a little bit over an hour to complete and this guy can only game 2 hours every week.. ehh

1. you cant actually finish 2 full runs because you only have the time for 1 and a bit
2. If they wipe from a silly mistake on wave idk 17 It takes a longer amount of time to get up to that wave 17 again vs wave 13 etc

It's not about how much time one has to play, since the amount of time it takes for one run to be completed will always be the same for everyone (roughly). I mean, how long does a run today take, 30 minutes? I don't think adding 5 waves doubles that, but even if it does, then the guy who only has 2 hours can only play one run, so be it. You could say the same right now: ''What about the guy who only has 1,5 hours per week to play, he can't finish 3 full runs because he only has time for 2 and a bit''. I believe we're talking about a pretty rare case here anyway, and you'll never be able to satisfy everyone like that.

Making things difficult in terms of combat where players skill is actually rewarded and more importantly, in this game, communication I think is better suited for the majority of players.

There's only a few ways coming to my mind to make combat more difficult:
1. Increasing bot health: lame, since it just takes longer to kill them, which won't impact the run that much, unless it takes so much longer that it becomes frustrating (imagine a follower taking 10 volcs to the head before he dies)
2. Increasing bot damage: speaking as a sentry main: lame, since you're onehit by many things already. other than that, this might be the most logical decision, especially since RG got an extra 2 shield skill and even cades aren't an issue if you've got 3 engis
3. Turning off auto-block for everyone: no explanation needed, that's a horrible idea
But doing any of these without any other (better) idea would be like removing 1/4th of the classes for no reason.

[Malong]

Not a bad idea imo, but making a boss spawn only half the time greatly reduces loot chance and therefore drops in general (at least if the loot system makes any sense at all)

Loot chance can always change 

Be interested as an indicator "of the boss spawned got a X% chance someone is going to loot we need to tome"

My biggest problem with this suggestion in general is making this game easier sounds lame.. maybe it's nostalgia but 10 years ago we didn't have this power creep in items where in every single game I feel like I'm seeing multiple people bring in upgrades

People's gear is dramatically better at what point do the bots get a buff they deserve

I agree with the power creep comment. I'm not for making the game easier. With more legendaries dropping the last few years and more mats longer than that, I think making the bots more powerful with better xp would be a better alternative.

Out of curiosity, would you want a more difficult mode with no drops whatsoever?

If your answer is yes, then congratulations, you're a real gamer that wants a challenge. Why you are seeking this in a solved PvE tower defense game is a completely different question, but let's stop there.

If your answer is no, then what you want is neither difficulty nor challenge. I bring this up because I highly suspect that the answer for most of this mod's players is no. See previous Halloween events.

A higher difficulty mode without any drops would be nice to have besides the "normal" servers, as a challenge (like the halloween challenge).

Well to reiterate: "you're a real gamer that wants a challenge. Why you are seeking this in a solved PvE tower defense game is a completely different question, but let's stop there."

Those old loot-less Halloween servers were essentially empty outside of official events which were played for the novelty. When experience is bugged, people are quick to complain and report it. The Fluffy concept lasted about a week. Similarly, the Ironman concept, which is essentially a second form of Fluffy, lasted about a week too, and they weren't interested in continuing after defeating Ragnarok. More recently, there was an official event idea where players would go to spec when killed instead of getting tomed in for a challenge, and zero people signed up.

Those were just five examples that came to mind within about a minute of thinking. All of this behavior shows that you're in the minority; people play for loot, not challenge.

As an idea, why not bring back 20 waves, so there's 5 extra waves to make actually finishing a run considerably harder, which I'd find a lot more entertaining than just making the existing bots more challenging.

"Follow the same algorithm for a longer period of time" isn't difficulty, it's just duration.

Either way, bots have to become stronger compared to the player, since we can all agree the players are too OP.

I don't agree. I also don't play NI for a challenge. But since you want a challenge: "Why you are seeking this in a solved PvE tower defense game?"

But if you insist on finding challenge in NI: Why is it on the game developers to add this challenge for you? Why not add your own challenge? You can impose play restrictions on yourself, such as playing your own form of solo self-found like in ARPGs: use only items you find and craft yourself and never trade with anyone else nor use the auction hall. There are many other such ideas too, but I think it's clear that the majority of this community isn't playing for the challenge.