We need a more difficult mode

[Chaos Laicosin]

It been mentioned several times lately that the game is feeling stale. Everyone has legendaries, waves end too fast, there is no sense of danger, 2 dozen tomes are being brought in so dying has no weight on the run's outcome, etc. 

There have been mentions of certain classes being boring or one-dimensional. 

There is no felt reward to killing anymore. The ultimate quests (Ashes/Ashes II) are just a slog with no challenge and a comparatively tiny reward vs. gold gained from assist xp and orange mats gained from boss drops.

Thus, I say we need an extra hard mode to bring excitement back to the game. A hellish nightmare mode. A mode that REQUIRES upgraded legendaries to even have a chance at completing it. A mode where the enemies are just fast enough/strong enough/ranged enough that kiting just isn't an option and team play is required.

Why play it? Aside from the challenge, I'd propose that the enemies could loot collectibles and the "silly" items (things like tessaiga or pan of nemeth) instead of legwndaries. Could also maybe have it drop Lumps at a rate indicative of their requirement in crafting? 

What's anyone's thoughts on that? Would you play it if legendaries weren't in the drop tables? Would it make the game more fun to play long term or would it just be a gimmick that would get boring/frustrating after a while?

[Extaziii]

Thought, make same rag waves copy pasta in Nightmare mode with certain bonuses.

3x the HP
2x the Damage
2x increased armour
3 wraiths spawned chances increased
Instead of 1-2 tricksters spawning when wave start make it 5-6-7 = so people are focused to not die, go on corners, fences.
XP kept the same maybe tweaked a bit.

[Hamsterino]

while typing out my answer I realized that the main problem will always be the players. no matter what I thought of, the answer would always be ''that'd be frustrating'' or ''nobody would enjoy that''. creating a new, harder mode would certainly be fun and I'd play it regardless of what things drop, but would the majority of the players?

people play for loot, not challenge.

we're already too fixed on seeing NI as a lottery where you only play for loot. getting to and beating w15 isn't even a question anymore, it's just a matter of how much and what items you loot.
my thought process:
1. would I enjoy a harder mode where it's about finishing the run, not about looting? most definitely.
2. if it was so hard that I couldn't solo it, would people join? maybe. would they keep playing after a week? unlikely. would they keep playing after getting every available collectible? probably not.
3. once people got all the collectibles, would they just go back to farming rag for more loot? certainly.
4. is there any way to solve this issue, even though it's a matter of how most people see the game and want to play it? maybe.

then again, if most people are content with just mindlessly grinding for loot and the devs don't seem to care enough to do something many players would be unhappy with, who are we to discuss something like that?

as a conclusion, even though I'm not happy with it, I think it's best to keep such challenges to special events like the upcoming one. this mod might be unsaveable, so we should probably just try to have fun with what is left to have fun with.

[Sharmastyle]

Thought, make same rag waves copy pasta in Nightmare mode with certain bonuses.

3x the HP
2x the Damage
2x increased armour
3 wraiths spawned chances increased
Instead of 1-2 tricksters spawning when wave start make it 5-6-7 = so people are focused to not die, go on corners, fences.
XP kept the same maybe tweaked a bit.

Why would anyone want a harder mode with no increased xp and all the same bots as Rag? "The loot is the fun" -PCK

[Extaziii]

Thought, make same rag waves copy pasta in Nightmare mode with certain bonuses.

3x the HP
2x the Damage
2x increased armour
3 wraiths spawned chances increased
Instead of 1-2 tricksters spawning when wave start make it 5-6-7 = so people are focused to not die, go on corners, fences.
XP kept the same maybe tweaked a bit.

Why would anyone want a harder mode with no increased xp and all the same bots as Rag? "The loot is the fun" -PCK

Loot can be kept, its just harder to farm lol

[Venom]

I actually proposed something similar with a challenge-like mode a while ago, but unfortunately, it didn’t get much attention. It seems that these kinds of posts don’t attract as much interest from the community. Hopefully, this one will spark some discussion

[Corrndog]

The problem isn’t a harder mod, stronger bosses, or larger waves of Nords, but rather the nature and mechanics of the game itself. We're playing against bots, so we shouldn't expect them to surpass players in intelligence (though, in some cases, they actually do).

Even if an additional difficulty level or other challenges were introduced, there wouldn’t be enough players to make it work.

That’s just how it works in real life. Challenges are part of the journey toward achieving or obtaining something—whether it’s building a better physique or starting a business. The real fun is in the process, and that’s where we get the most satisfaction. That’s why everyone wants to upgrade their gear, achieve the best possible loadout for their class, and so on.

The end goal has to be something significant. If a new difficulty level were introduced, it would need to offer something new—better items, more experience, etc. But in the long run, that wouldn’t change anything. People would just end up wealthier with new items, and after some time, everyone would reach their goals again.

Besides, think about it—how old is this mod? Around 14 years? It’s already shocking that NI is experiencing a renaissance, and the player base is still thisa lrge.

[DR.]

Dark souls itself is a game people flex they have completed. 

People don't flex about the items that they got along the way because the things themselves aren't actually the reason you are playing. If anything people flex about finishing the game with the least optimal builds possible 

In the same breath there many items in many MMOs that actually are something to be proud of because they're rare.

We had these 2 reasons for years. Rag runs in public was a joke so you actually needed to be in a house or an event to even experience later rag waves. Kiting was more celebrated by those few that could actually solo the harder difficulties  vs now it's kinda cringe if you can't and have good gear in comparison. Legendaries used to be actually rare and when they got relatively common we got upgrades. I made the 1st upgrade that was a special moment in this game that can only happen once a step forward that can't be undone.

We currently don't have either of these anymore and that's why this mod been slowly dying over the years from a lack of challenge and like myself when you effectively have everything that you could ever want 

What's the point of being here? Grinding for duplicates of gear that you already have or grinding for gear that you don't even like

If this mod wants to keep the players it's gained with the recent update It probably needs to address both of these not just making the game harder 

We had upgrades in 2018 give us a crafting recipe that involves 2 copies of the same upgrade + something that will give players something to grind for many years if not decades to come

Be very interesting if a new higher gear is available making upgrades something that could actually be dropped in game? Make them as rare as the old legendaries used to be were we as a community could go for weeks without seeing anyone loot one