Legionnaire Shielding Skill

[Tsukiyomi]

[quote author=Sargent Q link=topic=28630.msg186443#msg186443 date=1404873527]
You want to try to talk about it?  Try playing it for a while. Same goes for the rest of you guys posting here.  Anyway  yesterday i was on normal mod and we got zweihanders.  I could not kill any with the Excalibur before they killed me, so try and say that it would be useful on hard or rag after that.

Careful of the fights you pick, Q...

(Sorry, big brother instinct kicking in here... )

;D

That being said, I gotta agree with Q on DWP vs. Illustrius, having used DWP a lot, and Illustrius some, I would take DWP any day for the armor piercing capabilities.  Not being a Legionnaire myself, I'm going to shut my mouth about the rest of it
[/quote]

Literally the only situation (as legionnaire) where the DWP is better is against the "boss" enemies that have too high of armor for cut damage (think Thor, Odin, Ragnar, Loki).  While this seems like a huge benefit you must keep in mind that in most games with experienced players the common practice is NOT to melee these enemies as typically you can not keep them stun locked very well due to their high swing speed and damage.  Also engaging these enemies in melee often causes them to switch agro from the person saving and allows them to go on a killing spree inside the base. 

Back to the topic at hand.  I have done quite a bit of testing (again, as legionnaire) with the various one handed legendary weapons (DWP, Fell Edge, Fang, Illustrious).  From what I can see, every one of these weapons kills all bots in the same number of hits.  I have done these tests against bots on hard and rag mode.  Every bot aside from the ones I have already mentioned dies in the same number of hits including jotne, einherjar rangers/snipers.  In my opinion this makes the Illustrious the superior weapon as it ends up killing faster due to the increased swing speed and length (made even better by the high 1h skill).  I know most people will disagree with my opinion but keep in mind I am currently one of the only (probably the only) person who is active on legionnaire and owns an Illustrious so I do have a bit of insight on this subject

[Suns]

[quote author=Suns link=topic=28630.msg186379#msg186379 date=1404840251]
Legionnaires are versatile, as Sosruko said. Best keep them that way. Just because you shielded in 9 out of 10 Hard runs, doesn't mean your class is just fit for that role, and needs a buff. Royal Guards shield, Zweihanders slash, and the Legionnaires fit into every role where it needs patching.

You want to try to talk about it?  Try playing it for a while. Same goes for the rest of you guys posting here.  Anyway  yesterday i was on normal mod and we got zweihanders.  I could not kill any with the Excalibur before they killed me, so try and say that it would be useful on hard or rag after that.
[/quote]
Ok, so your going to start an uneeded argument, with someone that goes against your opinion? Thats nice. People are allowed to have opinions, this isn't a communistic dictatorship. The whole point of the "Feature Requests" thread, is to request for new features. Opinions further benefit the situation, after debate with the NI community, the devs might take it into consideration if the idea fits well.

Let me elaborate on my past post.

In a perfect world, Royal Guards shield, and Zweihanders slash. What do the Legionnaires do? They can do a variety of roles.
1)Plug up any holes in the shieldwall. Slashing or shielding.
2)Provide ranged fire, which other commandos cannot do as well as the Legionnaire.
3)Kill off the lucky bots that get into the cades, thus saving the team from a wipe if the medic/juggler or shielders/slashers get killed.

The Legionnaires are based upon versatility. They have access to better ranged capability than the other commandos, they also have better one-handed capability. Not only, do they fight better with one-handed weapons, they can bring in better ones. Nothing is easier, than luring and weakening bots with your good ranged/melee capability. Like skirmishers, the Legionnaire can throw 1-2 projectiles at the bots, weakening them for the killing blow with melee. The other commandos, don't have access to this skill. This is a heavy advantage given to the Legionnaires, why I believe a buff to shielding, would make this class unbalanced. Commandos are meant to do the melee work, but adding ranged capability is a good skill for a heavily armored killing machine. It may not work in certain ways in Hard and Rag, but that is how new skills/tricks are developed to fit the stats of the character. Why kiting was made for ranged with higher athletics against bots.

[Sosruko]

Weapon Slot: Very Heavy Throwing Axes [1h 240+Power Strike 8/Throw 170+Power Throw 5]
Weapon Slot: Royal Shield [Shielding 8]
Weapon Slot: Stone Maul [2h 185+Power Strike 8]
Extra Slot: 2nd stack of VHTA bringing total ammo count to 50.

Combine this with potential defenses of:
Head Armor: 73 (Valsguarde)
Body Armor: 90 (Defender Armor/Studded Gauntlets)
Leg Armor: 59 (Defender Boots)

Not absolute best in anything, very capable in shielding/slashing/luring with an added bonus of occasional throwing. When you can bring in all that good stuff every spawn you are helping your team maybe more than any other class in game. Looks quite attractive to me, but equipment costs to take out full potential is extremely high compared to most hero classes.

[madjsoh]

i think a buff on legionnaire shield skill would be a fair call. the class isn't as effective in thrown as most here have the opinion it is and the 1h skill brings nothing new to the team that any other commando class does not (i'm no legionnaire expert but with a textbook commando 1h i don't see a legionnaire killing an enemy in less hits). an old saying comes to mind, "apprentice of all master of none", the idea of choosing a hero class is to become one of the best in swadia in a chosen skill tree and i can't see the legionnaire being the "best" at one skill. would it be that bad having another hero with 9 shielding? i just don't know, but to those of you who chose legionnaire well, you get what you pay for (if you did pay for the hero when it was discounted).

[Tsukiyomi]

i'm no legionnaire expert but with a textbook commando 1h i don't see a legionnaire killing an enemy in less hits)

If you go legionnaire why would you use a "textbook" commando 1h?  Isn't part of the reason for going legionnaire the ability to bring in better 1h weapons?  I tend to kill most nords in fewer hits than other infantry heroes even when they pick up my weapon.  Also I notice myself shielding quite a bit as legionnaire (on rag) and seem to do just fine.  In fact I still end up towards among the top killers in full games even when I shield every wave.  Anyway I'm sure as I've already stated in a previous post that most people are going to disagree with me.  But I do agree with Q on one point - people who have not played as the class should probably not be so quick to offer up their opinions.  Again, I am not saying I don't want 9 shielding (any stat boost is always nice) but there are much better ways to bring more balance to the class.

[Sargent Q]

Weapon Slot: Very Heavy Throwing Axes [1h 240+Power Strike 8/Throw 170+Power Throw 5]
Weapon Slot: Royal Shield [Shielding 8]
Weapon Slot: Stone Maul [2h 185+Power Strike 8]
Extra Slot: 2nd stack of VHTA bringing total ammo count to 50.

Combine this with potential defenses of:
Head Armor: 73 (Valsguarde)
Body Armor: 90 (Defender Armor/Studded Gauntlets)
Leg Armor: 59 (Defender Boots)

Not absolute best in anything, very capable in shielding/slashing/luring with an added bonus of occasional throwing. When you can bring in all that good stuff every spawn you are helping your team maybe more than any other class in game. Looks quite attractive to me, but equipment costs to take out full potential is extremely high compared to most hero classes.

And of that stuff you mentioned there.  The only person i know of with a Valsguarde is Click and he cannot sell it.  Nore do I have access to any of the other armor there.
My armor consists of Trans, A sugerloaf helm, Ornate hourglass gauntlets, and light hunter boots.
You will not get very far on rag with 1 royal shield and 8 shielding. Meaning i can't bring in a slashing weapon if I am trying to get far.
I do have access to the VHTA's  currently it is a pain in the neck to try to swap them in between my Master Peltest and my Legionnaire.  Though i did here rumors that there was a thing in the patch that would fix that.

And Susanoo like I just said the one i have is killing in way more hits,  Like twice what I can with the VHTA's in melee at least.

[Tsukiyomi]

[quote author=Sosruko link=topic=28630.msg186464#msg186464 date=1404883097]
Weapon Slot: Very Heavy Throwing Axes [1h 240+Power Strike 8/Throw 170+Power Throw 5]
Weapon Slot: Royal Shield [Shielding 8]
Weapon Slot: Stone Maul [2h 185+Power Strike 8]
Extra Slot: 2nd stack of VHTA bringing total ammo count to 50.

Combine this with potential defenses of:
Head Armor: 73 (Valsguarde)
Body Armor: 90 (Defender Armor/Studded Gauntlets)
Leg Armor: 59 (Defender Boots)

Not absolute best in anything, very capable in shielding/slashing/luring with an added bonus of occasional throwing. When you can bring in all that good stuff every spawn you are helping your team maybe more than any other class in game. Looks quite attractive to me, but equipment costs to take out full potential is extremely high compared to most hero classes.

And of that stuff you mentioned there.  The only person i know of with a Valsguarde is Click and he cannot sell it.  Nore do I have access to any of the other armor there.
My armor consists of Trans, A sugerloaf helm, Ornate hourglass gauntlets, and light hunter boots.
You will not get very far on rag with 1 royal shield and 8 shielding. Meaning i can't bring in a slashing weapon if I am trying to get far.
I do have access to the VHTA's  currently it is a pain in the neck to try to swap them in between my Master Peltest and my Legionnaire.  Though i did here rumors that there was a thing in the patch that would fix that.

And Susanoo like I just said the one i have is killing in way more hits,  Like twice what I can with the VHTA's in melee at least.
[/quote]

To be fair excalibur is one of the worst crafted 1h for legionnaire.  For the same cost a frostfang is far better.  That said I think you may need to brush up on melee skills if it takes you so many hits to kill.  Try aiming for the head and using speed bonus to your advantage.  If you are not striking properly you will not do nearly enough damage and the weapon will seem quite underwhelming.

[Suns]

Legionnaire is the best class to use hilt slashing. Its basically.
1)Close in onto the enemy. (as close as you can get)
2)Aim a left swing at the floor.
3)Swinging the sword this way increases speed/attack rate. You'll find you can attack 3 times before an enemy can attack you. (Shield-Armor-Shield)
4)Good with stun locking, only works with weapons with at least 95 speed I think, and that the bot you're fighting has almost the same speed as you.

Edit: It does do less damage, but its useful with weapons such as the DWP. Also a PvP move...

[Tsukiyomi]

Legionnaire is the best class to use hilt slashing. Its basically.
1)Close in onto the enemy. (as close as you can get)
2)Aim a left swing at the floor.
3)Swinging the sword this way increases speed/attack rate. You'll find you can attack 3 times before an enemy can attack you. (Shield-Armor-Shield)
4)Good with stun locking, only works with weapons with at least 95 speed I think, and that the bot you're fighting has almost the same speed as you.

And this is why people fail in melee.  Headshots are key - do not aim for the feet.  I NEVER do this "strategy" and never have a problem stun locking. 

[Sosruko]

Melee headshots do 20% more damage compared to bodyshots. Legshots do 10% less damage compared to bodyshots. Footshot damage is same as bodyshot damage.