WTK Better Shield For RG

[greekdragonkdl]

[quote author=greekdragonkdl link=topic=33349.msg203159#msg203159 date=1413769463]
Aegis shield is a hero locked shield, so it is inherently better than all the commando shields, like the resilience. However, if you plan on having a Zweihander or Legionnaire alt, and don't want to invest in a 2nd good shield, then a Royal Shield or a Swadian Resilience would be best as you could use them on all your infantry characters rather than just Royal Guard, plus those shields are slightly cheaper. Note that Pavise Champion (Xbow hero) can also use Aegis shield.

yes i know all of that but I'm trying to ask which stat would i want more of, more hitpoints for the shield or more armor rating for the shield, thanks for ur response tho and i think i may plan on making a zweihander but idk yet
[/quote]

There's some kind of formula of how shield resistance effects damage done to hitpoints when a bot hits the shield, but can't remember what that was. I do know that aegis is better due to higher shield resistance, despite the lower hitpoints compared to the resilience. Harlaus has some sort of formula for this I believe.

[Mr Killer]

[quote author=Killer link=topic=33349.msg203164#msg203164 date=1413770397]
[quote author=greekdragonkdl link=topic=33349.msg203159#msg203159 date=1413769463]
Aegis shield is a hero locked shield, so it is inherently better than all the commando shields, like the resilience. However, if you plan on having a Zweihander or Legionnaire alt, and don't want to invest in a 2nd good shield, then a Royal Shield or a Swadian Resilience would be best as you could use them on all your infantry characters rather than just Royal Guard, plus those shields are slightly cheaper. Note that Pavise Champion (Xbow hero) can also use Aegis shield.

yes i know all of that but I'm trying to ask which stat would i want more of, more hitpoints for the shield or more armor rating for the shield, thanks for ur response tho and i think i may plan on making a zweihander but idk yet
[/quote]

There's some kind of formula of how shield resistance effects damage done to hitpoints when a bot hits the shield, but can't remember what that was. I do know that aegis is better due to higher shield resistance, despite the lower hitpoints compared to the resilience. Harlaus has some sort of formula for this I believe.
[/quote] if my knowledge is correct i would think most nords have axes or axe like weapons that get bonus against shield which eliminates the resistance part or at least decreases it, at least this is how it works in other mods if I'm right but if it works differently in this mod it'd be nice to know and ill look to see if i can find that formula

[Maroon]

This was Harlaus's post:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Cut Weapon

Aegis Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 9.486
Max damage: 12.4
Range of hits 108 -  142


Resilience
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 13.674
Max damage: 17.2
Range of hits 81 -  102


Studded Kite Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 7.5
Max damage: 10.0
Range of hits 120 -  160


Dragon kite shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 12.246
Max damage: 15.6
Range of hits 80 -  102


Blunt Weapon

Aegis Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 21.829375
Max damage: 26.5
Range of hits 50 -  61


Resilience
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 24.964375
Max damage: 29.5
Range of hits 47 -  56


Studded Kite Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 20.3125
Max damage: 25.0
Range of hits 48 -  59


Dragon kite shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 23.904375
Max damage: 28.5
Range of hits 43 -  52


Pierce weapon

Aegis Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 17.164625
Max damage: 19.45
Range of hits 69 -  78


Resilience
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 20.956625
Max damage: 23.35
Range of hits 59 -  66


Studded Kite Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 15.3125
Max damage: 17.5
Range of hits 68 -  78


Dragon kite shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 19.679625
Max damage: 22.05
Range of hits 56 -  63

*Studded Kite shield = Studded Steel Shield, apologies.
Some things to consider:
1) All were calculated with 50 base damage, 30 strength, 8 powerstrike, and 180 weapon proficiency
2) Resilience performs 3rd best against pierce weapons, 3rd best against blunt weapons, and 3rd best against Cut weapons.
3) In all cases the Dragon kite shield comes in 4th, it is objectively the worst of them all, though no one ever complains about that.
4) Bonus against shields, as mentioned, simply doubles the damage after armor, so all these numbers need only be halved to calculate hits with bonus against shields.
5) Aegis shield takes overall first place, losing only against cut weapons. This is perfectly fine as it is the Shielding hero exclusive, as Winter said.
6) I have not calculated it, but I don't doubt the Royal shield beats the Resilience, this is either because the royal shield is too strong, or because the Resilience and Dragon kite shield are too weak. The second explanation is probably the more correct one.

As to what can be done to correct this, I am positive those in charge of balance have considered much and done the best they can, and the result will probably be satisfactory.

This was with 0.6.1 stats, of course. The Resilience has had a buff since.

[Harlaus]

if my knowledge is correct i would think most nords have axes or axe like weapons that get bonus against shield which eliminates the resistance part or at least decreases it, at least this is how it works in other mods if I'm right but if it works differently in this mod it'd be nice to know and ill look to see if i can find that formula

no worries bud I got ya covered. it don't do that.
it doubles the damage vs shields probably at the end of the equation, it'd be weird any place else.
acc to banks resistance is just subtraction but that wasn't what I found. not what I found in tests either I think. I can't remember exactly it was a while ago but im pretty sure. theres a lot of information out there but like 90% of its shit. this could be shit. Take it for what you will.

would encourage one of you to get some tests run and put it someplace that's easy to find so people aren't running left and right looking for the answers and getting wrong ones. gl hope u do that. u probably won't, don't blame you.

This was Harlaus's post:

Spoiler

[quote author=Harlaus link=topic=28832.msg187205#msg187205 date=1405181512]

Spoiler

Cut Weapon

Aegis Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 9.486
Max damage: 12.4
Range of hits 108 -  142


Resilience
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 13.674
Max damage: 17.2
Range of hits 81 -  102


Studded Kite Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 7.5
Max damage: 10.0
Range of hits 120 -  160


Dragon kite shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 12.246
Max damage: 15.6
Range of hits 80 -  102


Blunt Weapon

Aegis Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 21.829375
Max damage: 26.5
Range of hits 50 -  61


Resilience
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 24.964375
Max damage: 29.5
Range of hits 47 -  56


Studded Kite Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 20.3125
Max damage: 25.0
Range of hits 48 -  59


Dragon kite shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 23.904375
Max damage: 28.5
Range of hits 43 -  52


Pierce weapon

Aegis Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 17.164625
Max damage: 19.45
Range of hits 69 -  78


Resilience
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 20.956625
Max damage: 23.35
Range of hits 59 -  66


Studded Kite Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 15.3125
Max damage: 17.5
Range of hits 68 -  78


Dragon kite shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 19.679625
Max damage: 22.05
Range of hits 56 -  63

*Studded Kite shield = Studded Steel Shield, apologies.
Some things to consider:
1) All were calculated with 50 base damage, 30 strength, 8 powerstrike, and 180 weapon proficiency
2) Resilience performs 3rd best against pierce weapons, 3rd best against blunt weapons, and 3rd best against Cut weapons.
3) In all cases the Dragon kite shield comes in 4th, it is objectively the worst of them all, though no one ever complains about that.
4) Bonus against shields, as mentioned, simply doubles the damage after armor, so all these numbers need only be halved to calculate hits with bonus against shields.
5) Aegis shield takes overall first place, losing only against cut weapons. This is perfectly fine as it is the Shielding hero exclusive, as Winter said.
6) I have not calculated it, but I don't doubt the Royal shield beats the Resilience, this is either because the royal shield is too strong, or because the Resilience and Dragon kite shield are too weak. The second explanation is probably the more correct one.

As to what can be done to correct this, I am positive those in charge of balance have considered much and done the best they can, and the result will probably be satisfactory.

[Mr Killer]

[quote author=Killer link=topic=33349.msg203209#msg203209 date=1413803634]
if my knowledge is correct i would think most nords have axes or axe like weapons that get bonus against shield which eliminates the resistance part or at least decreases it, at least this is how it works in other mods if I'm right but if it works differently in this mod it'd be nice to know and ill look to see if i can find that formula

no worries bud I got ya covered. it don't do that.
it doubles the damage vs shields probably at the end of the equation, it'd be weird any place else.
acc to banks resistance is just subtraction but that wasn't what I found. not what I found in tests either I think. I can't remember exactly it was a while ago but im pretty sure. theres a lot of information out there but like 90% of its shit. this could be shit. Take it for what you will.

would encourage one of you to get some tests run and put it someplace that's easy to find so people aren't running left and right looking for the answers and getting wrong ones. gl hope u do that. u probably won't, don't blame you.

This was Harlaus's post:

Spoiler

[quote author=Harlaus link=topic=28832.msg187205#msg187205 date=1405181512]

Spoiler

Cut Weapon

Aegis Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 9.486
Max damage: 12.4
Range of hits 108 -  142


Resilience
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 13.674
Max damage: 17.2
Range of hits 81 -  102


Studded Kite Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 7.5
Max damage: 10.0
Range of hits 120 -  160


Dragon kite shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 12.246
Max damage: 15.6
Range of hits 80 -  102


Blunt Weapon

Aegis Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 21.829375
Max damage: 26.5
Range of hits 50 -  61


Resilience
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 24.964375
Max damage: 29.5
Range of hits 47 -  56


Studded Kite Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 20.3125
Max damage: 25.0
Range of hits 48 -  59


Dragon kite shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 23.904375
Max damage: 28.5
Range of hits 43 -  52


Pierce weapon

Aegis Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 17.164625
Max damage: 19.45
Range of hits 69 -  78


Resilience
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 20.956625
Max damage: 23.35
Range of hits 59 -  66


Studded Kite Shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 15.3125
Max damage: 17.5
Range of hits 68 -  78


Dragon kite shield
high: 100.3
low: 90.27
Min damage: 19.679625
Max damage: 22.05
Range of hits 56 -  63

*Studded Kite shield = Studded Steel Shield, apologies.
Some things to consider:
1) All were calculated with 50 base damage, 30 strength, 8 powerstrike, and 180 weapon proficiency
2) Resilience performs 3rd best against pierce weapons, 3rd best against blunt weapons, and 3rd best against Cut weapons.
3) In all cases the Dragon kite shield comes in 4th, it is objectively the worst of them all, though no one ever complains about that.
4) Bonus against shields, as mentioned, simply doubles the damage after armor, so all these numbers need only be halved to calculate hits with bonus against shields.
5) Aegis shield takes overall first place, losing only against cut weapons. This is perfectly fine as it is the Shielding hero exclusive, as Winter said.
6) I have not calculated it, but I don't doubt the Royal shield beats the Resilience, this is either because the royal shield is too strong, or because the Resilience and Dragon kite shield are too weak. The second explanation is probably the more correct one.

As to what can be done to correct this, I am positive those in charge of balance have considered much and done the best they can, and the result will probably be satisfactory.