Rise from the Ashes

[DR.]

So we're agreed it wouldn't be enough to modify behavior of players?

For this to be true, you have to demonstrate that the people who care about the quest prioritize the quest over winning the run, and further would ignore requests to help at the barricades. This hasn't been established.

I agree not all players as not all players care about quests atm as after legacy of a hero it becomes a bit meh.

The people that want to do this quest most efficiently will pick the play style that's needed as they already do. You may need to demonstrate why people wouldn't. I would argue doing this playstyle would be done by a good amount of people including yourself. I can say this as you care more about efficiency than me but i would do it. I said the game would be harder and take longer but would that outcome be worth it. Yes. Even more so on normal and hard where it getting "harder" is not even a problem for people like us.

People ask "save that bot" all the time so most people are still invested in quests. You still have Inf taking big risks trying to kill Loke for example for Legacy.

Just think If this was for boss kills... Fuck me you would have people firing away when the dead are saying tome... tome!. This already happens to some extent but just think how bad it would be. Thank god you did not suggest that.


The Incentive to work by yourself with a change like this is so big people would do it.


People play runs to Loot, Do quests (for the reward), get mats/gold and some other factors that don't need to be said here. That's the core of Ni i would like to think. 
As said before and it seems you don't deny it [if] people pick that way of playing the game would 1. Be Harder by some % 2. Take longer by some %. 3. Thinking atm i guess It would be almost like damage stealing from other players by not helping the team only himself. I did say almost.

The game getting harder is not a problem for some teams. 2/3 of the quest is on normal and hard mind you and even then rag is very easy as the newest event will prove.

The game taking longer is something most people try to avoid, however... Given map choices and other things i would guess this would have less of an impact than some maps.


It can also be said I did not say all people would do this it would only take a few people every game. If we had 10 ranged people and 3 of them were doing this play style they would finish the quest faster and slow the others down. Given people are greedy i can't see why people would not do this play style if they want to do the quest the quickest. You may as well do quests in the meantime when you're looking for that sick loot. It's not like it takes much more skill for most teams as all it would do is extend the time played and difficulty level when the game is so easy atm.


Instead of "Siege Master" ill use Eastern Adventure from wave 13 normal. If we had a 16 man run it would only take 1 person with a bow to hit them in the body from far (if he could not 1 hit them).
Then once they get killed he would aim for Nord Veteran Berserker or Nord Axemaster or Swadian Deserter. On normal and hard the problem i see on rag gets amplified as now you don't need good gear to do this play style.


Saying it would even out does not make sense at all when people like me with ping or some other factors could never compete with just a person. Atm im over 80% on my mara if it was damage based from the start at what point would i ever catch up. If you say well you need to be 100% focused to get max... well i would just be doing that play style... Mind you most of my score has been using mangler were bots are already hit from someone else.  

In that department part of manglers downside is its speed when using its 2nd mode... Normally if someone has a legacy next to me were are about even in kills. I do more damage and his faster who do you think would win in this quest if it was damage related. (if i could not use throwing) I say the legacy would be "kill stealing" from me more and I'm fine with it. I use that class the most because i like it the most. I'm fine with its downsides as i value at least atm its positives more than any class. Buff sentry so it can be my new number 1. 

---

---

I never typed it wasn't fine, that's why I strived to complete it. But you know what would make it better? A way to record your exact damage-based contribution to a bot's kill, instead of granting all credit going to the last hit.

Close ill get to that in the next part.

Ive been thinking on this topic for some days on and off and think i may of found something that would make us and all people happy.

1st off i don't think i want this on bosses for the same point I said in this post. hp/damage quest for bosses would lead to kills with people dead. Max salt in Ni is when your dead for loot just because people not giving a shit about toming.

I came to this idea as in a very basic form what you want is to be rewarded for the assist. Assist got me thinking about other games like CsGo.


Let's say Malong hits a bot for 66% (2/3) then Forward 20% and last i get the kill. 

If a system was like if a player hits a bot for more than 60-75% of the Hp it has (I think 2/3 would be a good amount) they are rewarded with an assist. Note i would not want this lower than 60 as i would only want 2 people max being rewarded. 1 for the assist and the other the killing blow.
 
We could have in the game a counter next to the kills 

 

Ye, i have 350 kills in that pic but I'm sure the people below me would have more assists than kills. Showing assists ingame would make sense being a team game.

Now that I've given a brief intro to what I think assists should be in Ni ill go over what I think could be done with them. 

With Ashes, i would make it either

A. 2 assists are equal to 1 kill or B. they are equivalent so both players get that "kill" for that quest. Note people would be doing the quest a lot faster so im would be willing to say the people have done it already would be rewarded.

---

---

If you can demonstrate the new ones provide value and are worth implementing, then sure. But that decision is mutually exclusive of tuning a different feature.

Miscellaneous quests

Fixing Shields
were you get some shit shield. Like how Gears of War and Patchwork are.

Making cades
where you get a better cade then Gears of War

Healing (using meds)
where you get a better-med kit then Patchwork

^^^ 
For them 2 you could make it cades/meds/tomes/barrels are not crafted you get from doing quests. 
So get normal cade/normal wall/normal dep then the next quest is the next level of cades etc.

Shielding
I would want 3-4 different quests going from normal to rag and maybe beginner.

Crafting
https://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthread.php?tid=71164

Have ative house members

Do some amount of events as a house

Headshots
For Sniper/xbow/pikeman

Damage received
For Inf

Waves completed when alive
3-5 quests for each mode

Each wave would be given a point value so wave 1 is worth less than wave 15. 
I would also think about giving bonuses for passing each wave so it rewards doing the full run not just the end.

Total Bot Damage  
same as what you have been asking for but a small quest where it's not peoples main goal

Normal quests

I would also think about making a smaller quest that needs pure assists a bit like In It for the Long Haul (I, II, II) also were is my Long Haul IV for cav?

On the topic of Cav i think it needs a lot more quests as atm it has 2... when Beginner has 8

Moving Target III
Collecting Heads IV
Defender of (cav)
Congratulations, Minion Killer... <-- add cav bots
Prince Slayer (cav one)
Prime Slayer <-- add cav bots (maybe)
...
Then some basic ones.

A supermini Rise from the Ashes were its 100 of each bot.

A mini Rise from the Ashes were its 250 of each bot.

A better Rise from the Ashes were its 750 of each bot

A fucked Rise from the Ashes were its 1000 of each bot

Class quests
With the 4 main classes, i think it would be fun to have mini Long Haul series.

Each bot in game is given one of the 4 classes as some bots could be anything atm. With this Info, the Inf quest would be to kill all the Inf bots in normal x amount of times. Same goes with xbow, sniper and pikeman.

Given Inf normally have trouble getting to ranged bots this quest would be very achievable as inf at the cades.

Hero quests

I feel like rise of the ashes and a lot of other quests should just be for the 1 hero.

When the ability comes that quests can be for more than one character then I would make new ones and change some but not all. We have had this quest for too long it would be hard to change it now unless you compensate people.

Given this, I would make some quests locked to some heroes.

I would like to think quests for Wardens would be different from a Rg quests as well only seems fair. For how you go on about doing that well.  

Ranged classes like mp/warden/... should have more ranged bots were something like mara and zwei have melee bots in the quest. For stuff like rg or tank classes, it's harder to say but I feel tank classes could do with all the same bots the melee heroes get or a bit less + some ranged bots. For a hero like Cm I would think maybe it would be boss kills not bot kills. 

Rg I feel needs some quest where it can tell if your active shielding. With this, it would give you X number of points for each round. So each wave in Ni has a fixed number of points meaning the Quicks way to do the quest is to shield rag. Could add a multiplier on to it so the longer you survive the better it is pointwise. Also, think about giving Pc this quest.

Sentry and hoplite, I would consider as melee classes giving a buff (same quest as mara and zwei)

Senti, avent and leg should be a 60% ranged 40% melee or about 50/50.

What I want out of quests

To be rewarded for either playing a lot on 1 id or be rewarded for making more than 1 hero. Let the player choose.

To have goals that always feel unreachable but some that feel achievable

(Add meme about what's faction points)