OP Legio or why do you need MP?

[Akanamah]

Hello, I would like to raise the topic of class balance.

(I would like to apologize in advance for my English, I hope what I have written will be clear enough)

At the moment (as I think) in the game there is an extreme imbalance between MP and Legio.

From their stats to equipment.

Let's go through all the points:

1. Stats

Let's start with the main ones and move on to other stats.

1.1 Main

Throwing :

MP - 325 vs Legio - 300 

Only 25 points difference? provided that the MP is essentially not doing anything other than throwing.

not so fair, sure?

Power throw :

MP - 7 vs Legio - 7

are you sure? why then all hero pikerman are needed if legio has the same power throw as best of thrower (MP)?

Athletics :

MP - 10 vs Legio - 8 

Think it looks fair?

Only at 1st glance. (we will come back to this when we consider the equipment)

Ironflesh :

MP - 5 vs Legio - 6

I think it is fair.

(But do not forget that all Hero Inf have additional green health)

1.2 Other

Power strike :

MP - 7 vs Legio - 8

Fair.

Shield :

MP - 6 vs Legio - 8

Fair.

Polearm vs One handed vs Two handed:

MP - 185 vs Legio - 240/185

It is rather difficult to correlate these stats, but Legio has  best rate with 1h weapons,

and a relatively good of 2h (which, if there are 8, Power strike (PS), gives it an advantage

over MP has 7 PS and is not very effective in melee)

2. Equipment

We will allocate the main groups, such as Craft, House Craft, Legendary.

So as not to give a description on each item. let's highlight the basic parameters of the equipment, such as - Weight, Armor, Damage.

And dont looking melee weapons and shields. Also i dont have all items and use forum info by NKA and Woody.

2.1 Craft (Armor or Dmg, Weight)

Helmet :

MP - 44/4 vs Legio 62/4 

(i remember old times ~ 44/2 vs 63/3)

Body Armour :

MP - 50/24/(8 or 10, rly? same craft armour) vs Legio - 72/32/32

Gauntlets :

MP - 6/0.75 vs Legio - 8/1

Here without boots and weapons.

2.2 House Craft 

Helmet :

MP - 52/3 vs Legio 66/3 

(Old time 52/2 if i dont mistaking)

 

Body Armour :

MP - 56/28/6 vs Legio 76/35/10

Gauntlets : 

MP - 10/0.5 vs Legio 12/1

Boots :

MP - 27/2 vs Legio 36/3

Weapos (MP cant use - Heavy Pilum. Legio - Obsidian Daggers/Skullpiercers/Angon):

It’s hard to compare all these weapons, but I think Angon is the undisputed winner.

2.3 Legendary  (dont looking upgrade):

Helmet :

MP - 56/2 vs 71/1

In my opinion the most unfair point. even if you do not consider their prices.

Body Armour :

MP - 59/34/3 vs Legio 81/39/16

Gauntlets :

MP - 12/0.25 vs 16/0.5

Boots :

MP - 30/1 vs 39/3

Weapons :

Legio cant use - Volc and Rupturer. MP cant use - Malice.

3. Total

In the end, it all comes down to the fact that having almost equal throwing characteristics. Legionnaire is also quite good in the melee and much more tenacious with more armor and green HP.

paying for it at a slower speed run and cannot use Volc and Rupturer.

MP runs faster (although after increasing the weight of the initial equipment, new players, or those who cannot afford at least house craft, not to mention the legendary ones, this will not help much)

and can use Volc / Rup, and it's all?

I think earlier these classes were much better balanced in relation to each other.

I do not think that there is a need to up stats of MP. only if you lose weight Craft / House craft - helm, boots (and same craft armor 8 and 10 to 8 and 8)

and fix legio (-1 power throw)

Kind regard  Akanamah

P.S. I understand that the balance in the game is rather difficult to maintain, I don’t criticize the developers, Legio really needed to be strengthened before (in my opinion it was bad and usless class in the game)
but now he looks unfair to other classes. I just hope to understand the development team.
so that the players have an equal set, it's nice to play for all classes. (since at the moment MP seems to me not rightly disadvantaged)

---

I hope I was not wrong section post?

[DR.]

eh yes i agree with some and no to others 

1st - Of let's just state Mp has better throwing and atm at lest rups are a better throwing. 
2nd - Polearms are better than 1h's in an avg Ni run. Most having 2 modes or just being longer.
3rd - Its very easy to kite as Mp. Yes, you can kite with Leg but you need pol just about and even then you need skill, not gear.


Onto to why i think its mostly fair or at least close.

I see Leg as the quintessential swiss army knife vs Mp being a machete. It's not the only one like this look at Sentry vs Zwei or Halb/Ranger to Jugg... 

If the class is the best eg Warden at bow skill it mostly going to have avg other stats. There are some exceptions to this because of 

A. That class cant use both skills at the same time (Leg, Avent, Sentry, Senti, Pc, Mara, ...)
B. It's just a bad skill (Hoplite) 
C....

Now for why i think you can say Leg is op but not comparing it to Mp but to Senti and Avent. 


Leg 
2nd throwing 
1st 1h

Avent 
Faster than all other xbow
2nd best 1h
3/4th best xbow skill

Senti
3rd best 1h 
3/4th best bow skill.
last with the lowest armour 


I think the class is op in that sense but i don't think it's that much better than Mp.

I'm not sure if either Mp needs a buff or Leg needs a small nerf but what i can tell you there bigger class problems in Ni.

[Akanamah]

Now for why i think you can say Leg is op but not comparing it to Mp but to Senti and Avent. 

i comparing  Mp vs legio, bc it's it's top 1 and top 2 thrower. but i think it's not fair what 1nd have only +25 throwing vs 2nd (and same Power Throw(PT)).

and yes in NI now there bigger class balance problems.

it just seems to me that the difference between MP and Legio is felt the most. (since these are quite popular classes) as opposed to Sentry / Santinel / Avent.
and i think what fair fix is:
-2 wieght Craft helmet (-1 for legendary and house craft (HC)) -1 for HC boots.
do same 8 for craft body (8 and 10 with same craft it's bad joke)
and do -1 PT for legio (with save throwing (300)).

[DR.]

Now for why i think you can say Leg is op but not comparing it to Mp but to Senti and Avent. 

i comparing  Mp vs legio, bc it's it's top 1 and top 2 thrower. 

It's got the best 1h skill then 2nd best throwing adding its always been a 1h class (duelist). 

Throwing was only added later and only got good even later than that. 

Adding we have 3 variables vs the 2 so we can see what one is the biggest outlier.

[Forward]

Developers just like Infantry more, deal with it.

[Julia.]

Now for why i think you can say Leg is op but not comparing it to Mp but to Senti and Avent. 

i comparing  Mp vs legio, bc it's it's top 1 and top 2 thrower. but i think it's not fair what 1nd have only +25 throwing vs 2nd (and same Power Throw(PT)).

and yes in NI now there bigger class balance problems.

it just seems to me that the difference between MP and Legio is felt the most. (since these are quite popular classes) as opposed to Sentry / Santinel / Avent.
and i think what fair fix is:
-2 wieght Craft helmet (-1 for legendary and house craft (HC)) -1 for HC boots.
do same 8 for craft body (8 and 10 with same craft it's bad joke)
and do -1 PT for legio (with save throwing (300)).

I'd rather give up a bit of accuracy than PT.
MP has more agi and lighter armor. Did you ever try to kite with legio? Yes its possible but you run and run and run for literally 2mm of advantage, compared to a MP. Also due to using 1h rather than polearms, you cant just stab the enemy and keep running, mostly they can hit back or even hit before they'd be in your reach.

In general there are two types of legio players: those who focus on 1h and those who mainly throw.

I personally made a legio as I simply dont like polearms. I wanted a good thrower who is able to use decent 1hs. Others use the class as pure melee with the ability to throw if nessecary.

What I am trying to say is quite simple: no matter what you'd nerf, you'd either dissapoint one side or the other in the end.

[Kaasovic]

Hello, I would like to raise the topic of class balance.

(I would like to apologize in advance for my English, I hope what I have written will be clear enough)

At the moment (as I think) in the game there is an extreme imbalance between MP and Legio.

From their stats to equipment.

Let's go through all the points:

1. Stats

Let's start with the main ones and move on to other stats.

1.1 Main

Throwing :

MP - 325 vs Legio - 300 

Only 25 points difference? provided that the MP is essentially not doing anything other than throwing.

not so fair, sure?

Power throw :

MP - 7 vs Legio - 7

are you sure? why then all hero pikerman are needed if legio has the same power throw as best of thrower (MP)?

Athletics :

MP - 10 vs Legio - 8 

Think it looks fair?

Only at 1st glance. (we will come back to this when we consider the equipment)

Ironflesh :

MP - 5 vs Legio - 6

I think it is fair.

(But do not forget that all Hero Inf have additional green health)

1.2 Other

Power strike :

MP - 7 vs Legio - 8

Fair.

Shield :

MP - 6 vs Legio - 8

Fair.

Polearm vs One handed vs Two handed:

MP - 185 vs Legio - 240/185

It is rather difficult to correlate these stats, but Legio has  best rate with 1h weapons,

and a relatively good of 2h (which, if there are 8, Power strike (PS), gives it an advantage

over MP has 7 PS and is not very effective in melee)

2. Equipment

We will allocate the main groups, such as Craft, House Craft, Legendary.

So as not to give a description on each item. let's highlight the basic parameters of the equipment, such as - Weight, Armor, Damage.

And dont looking melee weapons and shields. Also i dont have all items and use forum info by NKA and Woody.

2.1 Craft (Armor or Dmg, Weight)

Helmet :

MP - 44/4 vs Legio 62/4 

(i remember old times ~ 44/2 vs 63/3)

Body Armour :

MP - 50/24/(8 or 10, rly? same craft armour) vs Legio - 72/32/32

Gauntlets :

MP - 6/0.75 vs Legio - 8/1

Here without boots and weapons.

2.2 House Craft 

Helmet :

MP - 52/3 vs Legio 66/3 

(Old time 52/2 if i dont mistaking)

 

Body Armour :

MP - 56/28/6 vs Legio 76/35/10

Gauntlets : 

MP - 10/0.5 vs Legio 12/1

Boots :

MP - 27/2 vs Legio 36/3

Weapos (MP cant use - Heavy Pilum. Legio - Obsidian Daggers/Skullpiercers/Angon):

It’s hard to compare all these weapons, but I think Angon is the undisputed winner.

2.3 Legendary  (dont looking upgrade):

Helmet :

MP - 56/2 vs 71/1

In my opinion the most unfair point. even if you do not consider their prices.

Body Armour :

MP - 59/34/3 vs Legio 81/39/16

Gauntlets :

MP - 12/0.25 vs 16/0.5

Boots :

MP - 30/1 vs 39/3

Weapons :

Legio cant use - Volc and Rupturer. MP cant use - Malice.

3. Total

In the end, it all comes down to the fact that having almost equal throwing characteristics. Legionnaire is also quite good in the melee and much more tenacious with more armor and green HP.

paying for it at a slower speed run and cannot use Volc and Rupturer.

MP runs faster (although after increasing the weight of the initial equipment, new players, or those who cannot afford at least house craft, not to mention the legendary ones, this will not help much)

and can use Volc / Rup, and it's all?

I think earlier these classes were much better balanced in relation to each other.

I do not think that there is a need to up stats of MP. only if you lose weight Craft / House craft - helm, boots (and same craft armor 8 and 10 to 8 and 8)

and fix legio (-1 power throw)

Kind regard  Akanamah

P.S. I understand that the balance in the game is rather difficult to maintain, I don’t criticize the developers, Legio really needed to be strengthened before (in my opinion it was bad and usless class in the game)
but now he looks unfair to other classes. I just hope to understand the development team.
so that the players have an equal set, it's nice to play for all classes. (since at the moment MP seems to me not rightly disadvantaged)

---

I hope I was not wrong section post?

Your conclusion pretty much sums it up. Both classes have their advantages and disadvantages. MPs have access to better throwable weaponry while Legio isn't a glass cannon. We'll probably have to look at craftable equipment again and see if anything requires balancing, which is something on the todo list

Developers just like Infantry more, deal with it.

Wha?

[DR.]

Your conclusion pretty much sums it up. Both classes have their advantages and disadvantages. MPs have access to better throwable weaponry while Legio isn't a glass cannon. We'll probably have to look at craftable equipment again and see if anything requires balancing, which is something on the todo list

Would it be easier to start with upgraded stats and make that the max you would want then work your way down from there? 

so if an upgraded 1 hero locked thing is 100% power reds are 90/80% etc you get the idea.

Vs going from greens/blues and ending up with unbalanced upgrades/reds as you were off by 1p or whatever at the start.

[Akanamah]

I'd rather give up a bit of accuracy than PT.
MP has more agi and lighter armor. Did you ever try to kite with legio? Yes its possible but you run and run and run for literally 2mm of advantage, compared to a MP. Also due to using 1h rather than polearms, you cant just stab the enemy and keep running, mostly they can hit back or even hit before they'd be in your reach.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this game is not about kite.
If you compare - MP and Legio on 16/16 server (for example, Ragnarok)
25 accuracy is not a significant difference, provided that the legionary can survive by receiving much more damage + his chances of defeating the trickster 1vs1 are also much higher. as the legio almost always has a shield, and the extremely high speed of the 1h sword will "spam" most of the opponents. What are the chances of survival for the MP against unblock trickster? I think at times less MP in such a situation has no right to make a mistake - mistake = death.

---

Your conclusion pretty much sums it up. Both classes have their advantages and disadvantages. MPs have access to better throwable weaponry while Legio isn't a glass cannon. We'll probably have to look at craftable equipment again and see if anything requires balancing, which is something on the todo list

More like fact that glass gun is the MP. Missed 1 hit - died (99% of cases, if talk about (melee) Rag and for Hard too bc if u miss 1 hit probably u miss and second)

[Julia.]

I'd rather give up a bit of accuracy than PT.
MP has more agi and lighter armor. Did you ever try to kite with legio? Yes its possible but you run and run and run for literally 2mm of advantage, compared to a MP. Also due to using 1h rather than polearms, you cant just stab the enemy and keep running, mostly they can hit back or even hit before they'd be in your reach.

Maybe I'm wrong, but this game is not about kite.
If you compare - MP and Legio on 16/16 server (for example, Ragnarok)
25 accuracy is not a significant difference, provided that the legionary can survive by receiving much more damage + his chances of defeating the trickster 1vs1 are also much higher. as the legio almost always has a shield, and the extremely high speed of the 1h sword will "spam" most of the opponents. What are the chances of survival for the MP against unblock trickster? I think at times less MP in such a situation has no right to make a mistake - mistake = death.

---

Your conclusion pretty much sums it up. Both classes have their advantages and disadvantages. MPs have access to better throwable weaponry while Legio isn't a glass cannon. We'll probably have to look at craftable equipment again and see if anything requires balancing, which is something on the todo list

More like fact that glass gun is the MP. Missed 1 hit - died (99% of cases, if talk about (melee) Rag and for Hard too bc if u miss 1 hit probably u miss and second)

If you use a shield (which anyone can pick up), you end up with less ammo. I wouldn't compare that, as its not like Legio has an extra slot or sth. As MP you can use your range if you get away from him and stun him, as Legio you require close combat end end up in a melee fight where you do get hit.