Make toming safe after a prayer

[DR.]

People almost unanimously agree Ni was more fun at the start when you had nothing. I would put this up to mutable factors but one of them being the game is just harder when you have lesser stats being you need to depend more on your team. For how big that factor is I can't say but I hope you can agree it's probably a bigger factor than people would be willing to admit.

Citation needed. Remember this poll and thread that proposed starting everyone off with nothing again? 64/124 is 51.6%; to me, that's quite far from "almost unanimously." Your mileage may vary though if you think 15 days is 4 weeks.

"Do you even think before you post stuff like this?" - Kaasovic to Woody, 2019

Forgot to reply to this one it seems on my phone. 

I equate starting for the 1st time having nothing and a gear reset to be very different things don't you?

I'm one of those people that laugh at the suggesed reset... This poll for something that's not related as much as you put on is not great evidence either.


I would like you to answer my question on how you would make rag harder. You agree probably most want it harder for the challenge and/or the [risk/reward].

It's not about how long it takes either but that can be part of your suggestion. It's possible a simpler answer then my own would make me happy. My solution is simple ish at the base and can be expanded on at a later date.

[Malong]

Forgot to reply to this one it seems on my phone. 

I equate starting for the 1st time having nothing and a gear reset to be very different things don't you?

I'm one of those people that laugh at the suggesed reset... This poll for something that's not related as much as you put on is not great evidence either.

Citation needed. Where do people "almost unanimously" agree it was more fun when they started out with nothing?

I would like you to answer my question on how you would make rag harder. You agree probably most want it harder for the challenge and/or the [risk/reward].

It's not about how long it takes either but that can be part of your suggestion. It's possible a simpler answer then my own would make me happy. My solution is simple ish at the base and can be expanded on at a later date.

I wouldn't because I wasn't suddenly more interested in the game when Siege Masters were implemented. Likewise for Loki, Thor, and Odin's special abilities.

[1:03 AM]
Terath:
the takeaway is that difficulty is not content

You agree probably most want it harder for the challenge and/or the [risk/reward].

That's not what I typed. This is:

Do you think I'm in the minority or the majority for wanting rag to get harder not just for the reward but the rush of actually needing to think for once rather than rag events being on autopilot just about? 

Probably majority. Stale gameplay with bad rewards has led to players leaving.

Feedback from many players I know that quit is that the unrewarding aspect far dwarfs the difficulty. The players I know are willing to put up with repetition as long as the rewards mean they can reach their goals without grinding what they feel is a large number of Ragnarok games. I honestly don't know anyone that plays NI for the challenge.

It's not about how long it takes either but that can be part of your suggestion. It's possible a simpler answer then my own would make me happy. My solution is simple ish at the base and can be expanded on at a later date.

What?

[Xen]

Proposing ability to have guaranteed no-wraiths tome after using "Offering to the God" shrine. Will add incentive to actually use shrines at high-end play and another layer of strategy. It's pretty costly and also you spend your limited peace time on so it will be not overpowered or overused anyway.
Also it's gambling so would be fun. Safety or greed and such.
Could provoke toxic behavior though, so I'm not that sure, but at least we can discuss it.
But another gold sink so it's good. But better players will lose more gold so that's bad.
Solution might be to fine every dead player for some gold in favor of toming player. Another incentive to use tomes and not randomly stand around like many pub players do.

Great idea if we weren't in the current climate we're in now. There's a lot of gold going around and in some cases having this ability maybe too much of an advantage for house events/full public runs. Also, if saving an enemy didn't exist it may be quite difficult to run over to a shrine to use it before toming.

Edit: 1300 gold is not much whatsoever for some players but I know some wouldn't even bother. Plus, if one person was toming (and some time there's the case that most players are AFK and not bothering to move... can make it quite expensive for one player)

[DR.]

Forgot to reply to this one it seems on my phone. 

I equate starting for the 1st time having nothing and a gear reset to be very different things don't you?

I'm one of those people that laugh at the suggesed reset... This poll for something that's not related as much as you put on is not great evidence either.

Citation needed. Where do people "almost unanimously" agree it was more fun when they started out with nothing?

The topic of when was Ni most fun has come up mutable times in the 1000s of hours of gameplay for me. I don't have time to track down the 1 post that will make you happy as most of the times this topic comes up is in team speak for events. This is why I'm not even sure what I would be looking for on the forum. 

More than one-time in VLKA events (Au) this topic was brought up. Why and when was the best time in Ni for you? This topic seems to happen more on Au events given the rise and fall of people vs Na and EU. From memory, so I could be wrong with who was on what side but people like Sharma, Scarecrow, think Disco, ... said about the same thing I did. It's also something that I remember as no one said "ye at this event"... nice.

We agreed when you start Ni for the 1st time with nothing its the most fun. For what factors made this be that was the topic also. The main one being well Ni is a new game for you... no shit you know nothing about it. Its was and still would be an adventure where you know nothing about cades, heals, items, how hard the game really is, classes and so much more. You cant get bored when you know nothing about it and if you did you quit on week 1. 

Im not sure if I suggested it at the time but someone said something on the lines of "It's no fun carrying people on normal but its fun getting carried". This lead to the topic of would Ni be more fun if it was harder. 


I am coming to think fun is the wrong word to describe it. Playing a harder mode is differently more engaging to me at lest and some others wich can lead to not feeling board given you are not on autopilot. 

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I would like you to answer my question on how you would make rag harder. You agree probably most want it harder for the challenge and/or the [risk/reward].

It's not about how long it takes either but that can be part of your suggestion. It's possible a simpler answer then my own would make me happy. My solution is simple ish at the base and can be expanded on at a later date.

I wouldn't because I wasn't suddenly more interested in the game when Siege Masters were implemented. Likewise for Loki, Thor, and Odin's special abilities.

Haha, nice topic it reminded me of my ags loot given it talks about the new loki ability that was just added. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRp13pjfy0Y

2:07 - 2:35 = Fara - "I'm happy tho"
4:08 - 5:14 = Rothgar - "I think you may need to increase the spawn rate"  r

Considering this is a big coincidence... It's safe to say maybe not everyone thinks like you. For whos in the majority or the minority, I don't know... It's safe to some people do get more interested when the game gets harder in this way. 


Also, what do Siege Masters drop? Yes if they were not a thing the drops would be somewhere else. Do you believe it was possible when the [risk] went up the [reward] got better? Did you get more XP and Gold at the very least?

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[1:03 AM]
Terath:
the takeaway is that difficulty is not content

You agree probably most want it harder for the challenge and/or the [risk/reward].

That's not what I typed. This is:

What?

My question: Do you think me and you are in the minority or the majority for wanting rag to be harder given as a side effect it can have a better reward?

Your answer: "don't know. Personally, it depends what the difficulty change would be and what the rewards increase would be."

My question: Do you think I'm in the minority or the majority for wanting rag to get harder not just for the reward but the rush of actually needing to think for once rather than rag events being on autopilot just about? 

Your answer: "Probably majority. Stale gameplay with bad rewards has led to players leaving."

---

---

Do you think I'm in the minority or the majority for wanting rag to get harder not just for the reward but the rush of actually needing to think for once rather than rag events being on autopilot just about? 

Probably majority. Stale gameplay with bad rewards has led to players leaving.

Feedback from many players I know that quit is that the unrewarding aspect far dwarfs the difficulty. The players I know are willing to put up with repetition as long as the rewards mean they can reach their goals without grinding what they feel is a large number of Ragnarok games. I honestly don't know anyone that plays NI for the challenge.

They value the reward more than the challenge no shit... They want the minimum risk to the greatest reward no shit. 

You need to DO the [risk] to get the [reward]. You don't get stuff for free [most of the time] hence the [risk/reward]. 

If you said to those people that left because of the "unrewarding aspect". Rag got harder but the reward comes in quicker. Would they become more interested then if nothing happened? This is considering how easy rag is for a team that has a basic understanding of the game is played atm

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It's not about how long it takes either but that can be part of your suggestion. It's possible a simpler answer then my own would make me happy. My solution is simple ish at the base and can be expanded on at a later date.

What?

I want you to suggest a way to make rag harder [risk/reward].

It's not about how long it takes... 

Ni in 2019 has so many things people would say is not happening even in 2018. "Not happening," says nothing about the idea it self other than its hard to do and I agree with that.

[Malong]

The topic of when was Ni most fun has come up mutable times in the 1000s of hours of gameplay for me. I don't have time to track down the 1 post that will make you happy as most of the times this topic comes up is in team speak for events. This is why I'm not even sure what I would be looking for on the forum. 

More than one-time in VLKA events (Au) this topic was brought up. Why and when was the best time in Ni for you? This topic seems to happen more on Au events given the rise and fall of people vs Na and EU. From memory, so I could be wrong with who was on what side but people like Sharma, Scarecrow, think Disco, ... said about the same thing I did. It's also something that I remember as no one said "ye at this event"... nice.

And more than one time in events I've attended, the same topic was brought up where people agree that players illogically romanticize the days they first started.

We agree when you start Ni for the 1st time with nothing for its the most fun. For what factors made this be that was the topic also. The main one being well Ni is a new game for you... no shit you know nothing about it. Its was and still would be an adventure where you know nothing about cades, heals, items, how hard the game really is, classes and so much more. You cant get bored when you know nothing about it and if you did you quit on week 1. 

No, I don't agree with this. When I first started, it was pretty miserable as most people on the server hid behind others that exploited items and had good gear they weren't supposed to have. And multiple people Dan and I brought to the mod quit the first week; it just wasn't for them.

I would like you to answer my question on how you would make rag harder. You agree probably most want it harder for the challenge and/or the [risk/reward].

It's not about how long it takes either but that can be part of your suggestion. It's possible a simpler answer then my own would make me happy. My solution is simple ish at the base and can be expanded on at a later date.

I wouldn't because I wasn't suddenly more interested in the game when Siege Masters were implemented. Likewise for Loki, Thor, and Odin's special abilities.

Haha, nice topic it reminded me of my ags loot given it talks about the new loki ability that was just added. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRp13pjfy0Y

2:07 - 2:35 = Fara - "I'm happy tho"
4:08 - 5:14 = Rothgar - "I think you may need to increase the spawn rate"  r

Considering this is a big coincidence... It's safe to say maybe not everyone thinks like you. For whos in the majority in the minority, I don't know but it's safe to some people do get more interested when the game gets harder in this way. 

You are arguing something I never typed: that I speak for everyone. As for my answer, you specifically asked me what I would do to make Ragnarok more difficult, and I posted that "I wouldn't." I have also posted before that in my experience, genuine challenge is not mechanics to gate nor "get people." Remember the first iteration of build points?

Also, what do Siege Masters drop? Yes if they were not a thing the drops would be somewhere else. Do you believe it was possible when those were added [The risk] the [reward] got better? Did you get more XP and Gold at the very least?

What? Ignoring the fact that I only cited Siege Masters as a bot added to increase difficulty, and not that I was advocating for its removal: a bot and its drop table are mutually exclusive. The question you are asking has nothing to do with belief though; it's just a comparison of the delta in value of rewards of its replacement bots, and I don't have that answer for you. I'm glad you finally spelled "possible" correctly though.

What?
My question: Do you think I'm in the minority or the majority for wanting rag to get harder not just for the reward but the rush of actually needing to think for once rather than rag events being on autopilot just about? 
Your answer: "Probably majority. Stale gameplay with bad rewards has led to players leaving."

I thought it was clear, but I am not in complete agreement with your full sentence. Stale gameplay with bad rewards has led to players leaving. Good rewards has led to spikes in population (legendary week, February + March 2018) despite the stale gameplay.

They value the reward more than the challenge no shit... They want the minimum risk to the greatest reward no shit. 

You need to DO the [risk] to get the [reward]. You don't get stuff for free [most of the time] hence the [risk/reward]. 

Did the game get appreciably more difficult in February and March 2018 when at least 120+ legendaries dropped?

If you said to those people that left because of the "unrewarding aspect". Rag got harder but the reward comes in quicker. Would they become more interested then if nothing happened? This is considering how easy rag is for a team that has a basic understanding of the game is played atm?

Conversation with someone who spoke for many people.

[Yesterday, 10:56 AM]
darkpck:
woody wants to know why DB stopped having events.

[Yesterday, 10:56 AM]
[redacted]:
cause we quit the game

[Yesterday, 10:57 AM]
darkpck:
ok, then why did you quit the game?

[Yesterday, 10:57 AM]
[redacted]:
cause we got bored
+ unrewarding

[Yesterday, 10:57 AM]
darkpck:
did the unrewarding game cause the boredom?
i.e. would you play if loot chance was higher?

[Yesterday, 10:58 AM]
[redacted]:
thats 1 reason, yes
no, i wouldnt

I want you to suggest a way to make rag harder [risk/reward].

Why? I have no interest in making Ragnarok more difficult; I thought that was clear. But why are you insisting on making it more difficult and then asking me (someone who does not agree with your vision) to flesh it out anyway?

Or how it's "Not happening:"

This was never about how difficult it is to implement. The below is just Terath's opinion; I don't know how the other developers feel:

[12:50 AM]
Terath:
reading woody's post i'm just more confused about what he's trying to say

[12:51 AM]
darkpck:
i don't know, some idea about buffs depending on the class composition of the players in the server.

[12:52 AM]
Terath:
that sounds like a woody post
oh he linked it

[12:52 AM]
darkpck:
yeah

[12:52 AM]
Terath:
yeah no i wouldn't do that at all lol