Ragnarok Map Pool

[Cherry]

I've noticed recently that certain maps on the rag severs completely kill the server when they come up and people either leave for a different map or change mode. This was never really an issue when the game was busier but now the player numbers are lower it doesn't make sense to have maps that kill rag runs. Is it possible to tweak the map pool and remove some of the un-played maps (not all of them but a few would help). This way continuous rag runs over multiple maps on the same server should be more likely. For example this could be done on rag eu 1 and 2 left with the normal pool for people who want to play all the maps.

[Julia.]

Could you please let me know which maps those are? Perhaps they also need some more editing on the long term.

[Jugg]

King of the hill, Port Assault (Is a good map, just slow if bad peaking.), Swadian Lighthouse (Again easy map with the right team but pub runs can often wipe due to people not knowing the best place(s) to cade.), First Defence (Is a good map again but the ranged gets stuck severely slowing the runs down if melee pushes past main gate OR a ranged player(s) is up the top.) Royal Observatory, (Again team dependant.) Hidden Farm, Swadian Great Hall (This is again a team dependant map.) Forest Outpost, Fortress Undersiege (a team dependant again) King's Reach (Just super slow) Lake Town, Mountain Pass (Super long run time for AI)

For the record to address this post, the reason these 'bad' maps exist is so people aren't able to just do like 3+ full rag runs per hour constantly. If it were to be only "good" or "fast" maps then we may as well just add buyable mats and LIs to the shop as the LI's would be coming into the game so much more quickly than they already are.

I guess the only way to 'fix' the issue is to simply just keep doing balancing changes to the existing maps and taking a look how long a run takes roughly. Perhaps one of the simple lest solutions would be to just remove all the multi spawn areas and just add a single spawn to each map but I think it's just one of those things that are almost always going to exist in NI and if there is a Bannerlord version I'm going to assume that the same problem(s) will persist over into that.

[Gore_Verbinski]

Certain maps are kind of slow, but I saw unless the usual rich people come, new players don't bother even crafting heavy barricades. I saw normal barricades in ragnarok runs, and certains map require a lot of them.

[Stockfisch]

King of the hill, Port Assault (Is a good map, just slow if bad peaking.), Swadian Lighthouse (Again easy map with the right team but pub runs can often wipe due to people not knowing the best place(s) to cade.), First Defence (Is a good map again but the ranged gets stuck severely slowing the runs down if melee pushes past main gate OR a ranged player(s) is up the top.) Royal Observatory, (Again team dependant.) Hidden Farm, Swadian Great Hall (This is again a team dependant map.)  Forest Outpost, Fortress Undersiege (a team dependant again) King's Reach (Just super slow) Lake Town, Mountain Pass (Super long run time for AI)

For the record to address this post, the reason these 'bad' maps exist is so people aren't able to just do like 3+ full rag runs per hour constantly. If it were to be only "good" or "fast" maps then we may as well just add buyable mats and LIs to the shop as the LI's would be coming into the game so much more quickly than they already are.

I guess the only way to 'fix' the issue is to simply just keep doing balancing changes to the existing maps and taking a look how long a run takes roughly. Perhaps one of the simple lest solutions would be to just remove all the multi spawn areas and just add a single spawn to each map but I think it's just one of those things that are almost always going to exist in NI and if there is a Bannerlord version I'm going to assume that the same problem(s) will persist over into that.

Top 7 worst maps:

1. King's Reach
2. Mountain Pass
3. Royal Observatory
4. Lake Town
5. Fortress Undersiege
6. Forest Outpost
7. Swadian Castle

Those maps really need a change. They are just getting skiped or wipe a full 16 man server, because they take really long to play/ bad peeking spots/ bad cading spots.
The best would be to take them out of the rotation or give the players a chance to vote for the next map.

As Jugg said the other map are also taking very long, because the bots are getting stuck, but in my oppinion they are "playable"

[Julia.]

I can name a bunch of ppl who really do love kiting, especially on a map like First defence. Yes, some ranged do get stuck but it is still a rather playable map in terms of cading and walktimes. We can't remove all maps, and not all maps can be super fast.

I am aware of issues on maps like Kings Reach, Mountain Pass, Royal Observatory and Fortess under Siege especially. All of those lack the possibility to peek ranged properly eventhou some of them I've tried to improve, others were said to be edited by others and that kinda never happened. For maps like Forest Outpost, Lake Town, Swadian City and Swadian Old Village the chances for leeching to happen are rather high (more than these).

If anyone has specific ideas how to improve any maps further, please add them here (screenshots, sketches etc help). I'll try to see what's possible and possibly I can make some edits just before Christmas (and get Nao to upload them).

[Petco]

The best would be to take them out of the rotation or give the players a chance to vote for the next map.

I agree with th vote option.

[Forward]

My 2 cents. Lets' try to grade NI maps, I'll try to be objective. For kiting best score means best security to reach wave 15, for full runs best score means best clear speed.

S - best of the best
A - very good
B - solid choice
C - below average, but playable
D - usually played only to change map

I value maps for Rag runs only, 100% of the maps completely playable on Hard/Normal.

Map	Kiting/Small team	Big team	Overall	Comment
Hyper's Hell	S	S	S	Best map in the game.
Swadian Outskirts	S	A	S
Old Shire	S	A	S
Swadian Overgrown	A	A	S
Swadian Mines	A	B	A
Swadian Town	A	B	A
Graubergen	B	A	A
Keancuop Forest	C	B	A
Swadian Citadel	S	C	A
King's Castleyard	A	A	A
Swadian Old Village	A	A	A
Senugda Cavern	B	A	A
Coastal Raid	C	A	A
Swadian Temple	B	A	A
Trader's Valley	A	B	A
Swadian Folly	B	A	A
Hande's Retreat	A	B	A
Swadian Lighthouse	A	B	A
Swadian Great Hall	A	A	A
First Defence	S	C	A
Hyper's Castle	S	A-B	A	Depends on the cading spot, front cading grade is A.
Ancient Bastion	S	B	A	Long time no see in a rotation, but good map.
Swadian Castle	A	B	A	Long time no see in a rotation, but good map.
Offshore	B	A	A
Swadian City	A	B	A
Yalen's Retreat	A	B	B
Hidden Cave	B	B	B
Nordic Fortress	B	C	B
King of the Hill	S	C	B
Forest Outpost	B	B	B
Frosthaven	C	B	B
Fortress Under Siege	A	C	B	*See below.
Royal Observatory	A	C	B	**See below.
Nordic Village	C	A	C	Need RG and a lot of support to be played effectively.
Port Assault	C	C	C
Mountain Pass	B	D	C
Unusdaq Castle	A	D	C	Not in a rotation atm.
Hidden Farm	A	D	C	Odin is killable duo here, proven.
Praven	D	C	C
Lake Town	C	C	C
Forgotten Bay	D	C	C
Fortress Outskirts	D	C	C	Probably not in a rotation.
King's Reach	D	D	D

I also don't think we should judge maps by fact 'the map is bad because random pub players don't know how to cade it'. I think we should aim for skilled players in our map rotation, and encourage weak players to become skilled, not other way around.

*I like Fortress Under Siege, it's both kiteable and able to be played in full team.Full server might be slow if ppl lazy to clear ranged right under the bastion.
The map might be fixed by adding stairs to next tower with shooting position which would make able to clear those bots from the range.

**Mentioned Royal Observatory is also not that bad also for small and big teams. Maybe there would be possible to make front cading possible for big teams, I don't know where though, if talking about small changes.


P.S. Pretty sure I forgot some maps.
P.S.S. King's Reach should be dropped from both servers imho, never seen it been played in ages.