Nord Invasion about to fizzle out.

[[ASSASSINE]]

maps in the past that catered for multiple defensive locations included Offshore, where you could choose between the huts near spawn, the small courtyard that is used today, the fortifications in-front of the bridge to the church or even at the church itself. First Defence, where you could hold out inside the towers, at the gates and most commonly in the past, the buttress's near the ladders. contrary to popular belief, cade spots were not always decided by which was the fastest, but rather which one catered to the team composition better. for example, a team consisting of heavily ranged classes would camp the buttress's near the ladders relying on the sheer firepower of their weapons to clear the waves before to much damage was done to cades. however, a team with more commandos would often cade the front gateway, making it easier for shielders to go out and lure ranged without having to climb down awkward ladders exposing their sides. a team with fewer or lower quality cades might have chosen to hold up in a smaller, cramped and slower cade spot to preserve their precious support items but sacrificing the speed of which their run would be completed. It is this freedom of choice that i believe needs to be re-added to liven up the game. a short time re-introduction of fun old maps such as swadian town, the old first defence, etc etc would prove a great PR move on the devs behalf and create a small burst of interest from older members of the community, perhaps inspiring them to play more while their favourite maps are back in the rotation and maybe giving them a taste for the game once again.

100% with this !

[Ribbed]

I'm talking about public runs here Woody. I know that some events may try different places.

[quote author=[ASSASSINE] link=topic=45644.msg237041#msg237041 date=1438070135]
[quote author=Hande link=topic=45644.msg237019#msg237019 date=1438039908]
[quote author=Ribbed link=topic=45644.msg237016#msg237016 date=1438037604]
just please open up the maps and remove the annoying invisible barriers.

This is not going to happen as long as enemy is AI.
[/quote]
so does this mean we are not seeing kiting ever again?
[/quote]
My comment wasn't for kiting. He wants us to remove invisible barriers and go outside.
[/quote]

I could have worded it better, I wasn't going for "outside of the map".
I want to see the maps increased in size & have the barriers moved to a further location. More maps like fortress under siege, you can roam across all the map & even go to the outskirts if you wish. While outskirts as a map itself has stupid barriers that inhibit melee from doing anything against the spawn camping ranged.

Overgrown has barriers in the spawn that stop people from looping around as well as causing the map to be completely broken (if the barriers weren't there the wall wouldn't of been an issue).

[Horizon]

I like alot of conversation going on here.

I need to disagree on one point though, HC are not useless. It ain't pretty, but someones got to bring a heavy cade.

I feel the crafting requirements for the highest level craftables might hold a negative effect on the economy side of things as well.

I wonder if a new crafting material that was comparable to Hardened Metal might force some balance on the cost of items. Many items value is determined greatly by its weight in Hardened Metal. If a new material was required for some items in the same amount, but replacing hardened metal it would prompt sales of stockpiled HM and drop the price back down a bit, while giving people something new to loot for certain items. and forcing some cash out of wealthier pockets into less wealthy hands due to a lack of available 'new material'

But then again usually when I play Rollercoaster Tycoon I go bankrupt and the park is in the gutter by year 2.



Proud to bring a Heavy Cade

[Fisherman]

Hello all

I have created a map and would love to keep creating maps for the NI community as i have loads of ideas. My current and first map has been designed to embody what i think NI needs which is... I made my current map with comments from Assasine in mind such as kiting and want to know what the devs think about the map, if they dont like it then i will change it.

1. Large maps for players to have space to run around and fight the AI without it being a big mess like we are finding with most maps.
2. Kitable to give few players e.g. 2-5 the ability to not depend on a large amount of people to loot goods (boosting the economy by lowering base material prices such as HM from 7k).
3. A large range of places to work as a team and camp.

Im reading all these comments (pretty much all i agree with) and i simply think that a few good maps would be the solution to everything. People are getting bored of waiting for 15/16 player slot and sitting behind people with shields praying for loots that will be shared between 16 people. Ive played a lot the past few weeks and havent got a single drop over 7k, that being HM. The more experianced players need more, i know i do. Kiting would reward people more than camping in more than one way (something to do when no one is online). Myself and Assasine love kiting together but as soon as we get to wave 16 people start to join (which is fine) but the maps arnt big enough or catered to kiting or setting up intime for wave 16, so the game is over. Maybe introducing smaller servers e.g. 5 to kite after wave 15 so others cant join and ruin a run for the kiters. Probably suggested before but again doesnt hurt.

The more craftable loot drops the more the prices of items drop. This has a lot of advantages such as the poorer players will get the chance to enjoy the game and feel they are advancing and furthermore feel great as they are killing loads of AI in normal mode and hard as they can access the higher tier gear sooner. Legendaires are a lost now, too many people have them. They are in every game and by the time wave 12 comes, even the poorest person has picked one up so there is literally no need for them to buy one. Personally i dont know what could be done about this but maybe others do.....

Do i think Normal should be kitable? Yes, able to do this with medium to higher end Tier 4 gear.
Do i think Hard should be kitable? Yes, only with high end gear such as legendaries by high skilled people.
Do i think Rag should be kitable? No, rag is meant to be too hard for a few to do and needs an organised team.

What do people think about what i have said?

[Ziggy]

Hello all

I have created a map and would love to keep creating maps for the NI community as i have loads of ideas. My current and first map has been designed to embody what i think NI needs which is... I made my current map with comments from Assasine in mind such as kiting and want to know what the devs think about the map, if they dont like it then i will change it.

1. Large maps for players to have space to run around and fight the AI without it being a big mess like we are finding with most maps.
2. Kitable to give few players e.g. 2-5 the ability to not depend on a large amount of people to loot goods (boosting the economy by lowering base material prices such as HM from 7k).
3. A large range of places to work as a team and camp.

Im reading all these comments (pretty much all i agree with) and i simply think that a few good maps would be the solution to everything. People are getting bored of waiting for 15/16 player slot and sitting behind people with shields praying for loots that will be shared between 16 people. Ive played a lot the past few weeks and havent got a single drop over 7k, that being HM. The more experianced players need more, i know i do. Kiting would reward people more than camping in more than one way (something to do when no one is online). Myself and Assasine love kiting together but as soon as we get to wave 16 people start to join (which is fine) but the maps arnt big enough or catered to kiting or setting up intime for wave 16, so the game is over. Maybe introducing smaller servers e.g. 5 to kite after wave 15 so others cant join and ruin a run for the kiters. Probably suggested before but again doesnt hurt.

The more craftable loot drops the more the prices of items drop. This has a lot of advantages such as the poorer players will get the chance to enjoy the game and feel they are advancing and furthermore feel great as they are killing loads of AI in normal mode and hard as they can access the higher tier gear sooner. Legendaires are a lost now, too many people have them. They are in every game and by the time wave 12 comes, even the poorest person has picked one up so there is literally no need for them to buy one. Personally i dont know what could be done about this but maybe others do.....

Do i think Normal should be kitable? Yes, able to do this with medium to higher end Tier 4 gear.
Do i think Hard should be kitable? Yes, only with high end gear such as legendaries by high skilled people.
Do i think Rag should be kitable? No, rag is meant to be too hard for a few to do and needs an organised team.

What do people think about what i have said?

I love what Fisherman said, and agree with what everyone has said so far. We need to get more new players by
1. Updating the Mod DB page. (Please update it when the next update comes along.)
2. Reaching out to steam friends letting them know about the new update. (tell them to join so they will be ready for the new update. And yes I know its a grassroots approach, but sometimes those work best.)
3. Keeping the new ones we have by making these changes to the maps, and introducing new ones that make it a possibility to kite, and help all of us including the redshirts.

All in all I'm just really looking forward to the next update, and I REALLY hope that kiting is introduced back into the mix. I like how Fisherman set up the kiting rules/ideas. I just really like this mod, but it does need improvements. The only way we can fix this mod is by getting more people involved.

[SaxonCamel]

• This game is based on lottery and not merit
  
• The AI path finding on maps is really bad
  
• Playing casually with the few people online is not viable i.e. server has to be near full
  
• Support items are too difficult to bring in
  
• People are generally hostile and intolerant. NordInvasion is more like a fraternity than a community; it's off putting for new players and new houses

[Hande]

The AI path finding on maps is really bad

Problem for AI path finding is not how it is placed in maps, it is how AI is made in this game. They are dumb as fuck, specifically those ranged units.

Support items are too difficult to bring in

What do you mean by this ? Cost is too high or they are hard to craft ?

People are generally hostile and intolerant. NordInvasion is more like a fraternity than a community; it's off putting for new players and new houses

I don't think people are that hostile and intolerant. I know that they can rage or tell bad things if something is not going the way they want, but hey that is how people are.
We can't really change it. Maybe by using more strict rules may help for it but then it is not fun anymore.

I love what Fisherman said, and agree with what everyone has said so far. We need to get more new players by
1. Updating the Mod DB page. (Please update it when the next update comes along.)

Moddb page is now updated.

[Fisherman]

[quote author=SaxonCamel link=topic=45644.msg237151#msg237151 date=1438154378]
People are generally hostile and intolerant. NordInvasion is more like a fraternity than a community; it's off putting for new players and new houses

I don't think people are that hostile and intolerant. I know that they can rage or tell bad things if something is not going the way they want, but hey that is how people are.
We can't really change it. Maybe by using more strict rules may help for it but then it is not fun anymore.[/Quote]

I haven't found this to be the case in the higher tier games with the long term players and we all know each other etc. I guess ive been lucky. I know what Hande is trying to say but i think that we need a new role in the game basically a community supporter which basically is able to stop the crap people say (not as in a mute, thats for the admins)  and go to the person on the other end (victim) and show them the ways like in another server or take them under their wing for a couple of days untill they understand. I think this would be a great opportunity for houses to stand up and actually help the new people/ people who lack the knowledge to play the game as usual. Dont tend to see houses do this so much and they want the best people and the equipment to be the best house (which is great of course) but this sort of limits the new players and make them resent higher up players instead of looking up to them. When i came into this mod about 2-3 years ago i looked up to players like Banshie, plus a lot more, and aimed to play more and get better at the game plus richer haha , dont tend to see that and i think to expand the community i think this needs to happen.

Example of houses not taking lower levels, level 32+ to even try and put an application in. But how are these people suppose to learn when no one is teaching them? I know from now im gonna be doing this, i hope other people do it to.

[Malong]

Example of houses not taking lower levels, level 32+ to even try and put an application in. But how are these people suppose to learn when no one is teaching them?

The ones that stay will learn the same way that current and enduring veterans have learned: critical thinking and effort. And if after all that, they don't want to play the mod, they probably weren't a good fit for the community anyway. Spoon feeding players algorithms is not really the way to build a player base. The players end up not appreciating your (or their own) efforts, and only learn methods instead of understanding any actual reasoning. They also tend to be the ones that rarely stick around because everything comes easily.

As actual evidence, look at the Recruitment sub-form to see all the multiple waves of new houses that start the mod and are not retained by the community. All the "let's help these guys" efforts generally do not work.

[Stillicho]

Big issues include the ease of the game and natural progression of time.

At this point, many veterans already have a T4 of every base class, or even multiple heroes of certain base classes, and interest in lower difficulties has dwindled. Without an infusion of new players, most are simply done with Normal.  The ripple effect is that availability of items from Normal drops, and the perception of its value increases leading to increased prices. And suggestions to implement new modes, maps, servers, or whatever for newer players won't exactly work. Players will just outgrow that mode as well, and the net result is you swap one headache for another. Look at any online game that has attempted to add a "new player zone:" as time progresses, those zones for low level players are completely desolate, and any new characters or players are usually friends of veterans that get power leveled anyway (this happens in NI too).

I think lowering the requirements of Hard mode to T3, and increasing the difficulty of Ragnarok would help. The mod would keep players engaged longer, allowing them to progress into Hard earlier, and keeping players interested in Ragnarok for longer.

This.

Any game over time progresses along with the ecomony or it crashes. Look at any mmo economy by comparison. Without something to stimulate a new player wealth and push them along into helping them get craftables at least instead of muddling along with no wealth at all until they lose interest in the game.

Right now there are either the super wealthy, who have gained there wealth due to a lottery-based system over time and the poor that grind. Those in between grind for a long time and have a lot of patience.

Boosting the economy of newer players would give them hope. You could do this through either increased xp gain in normal servers, which as it stands right now is a ridiculous grind for new character. As far as getting craftables, boosting HM drop rates would be a decent idea, just not enough to crash the economy as it stands now.