Nord Invasion about to fizzle out.

[Ribbed]

[quote author=Ribbed link=topic=45644.msg240324#msg240324 date=1440475756]
[quote author=Malong link=topic=45644.msg240255#msg240255 date=1440441258]
[quote author=FV_HappyMonk3y99 link=topic=45644.msg240251#msg240251 date=1440439016]
I feel like arguing, we nearly wiped due to the shielders being out of range of healers, not due to a lack of strength of any class

You neglect to mention that the Chosen walked through the shield wall gaps and hit the shielders and interrupt ranged, which lends credence to this from the previous post:

[T]hink of the factors that enable kills: a shield wall allowing ranged to hit bots with no danger outside of peeking

Therefore for ranged dps classes to reach their potential, they have to not be interrupted. This follows the classic RPG paradigm where ranged dps classes have to be uninterrupted to be particularly useful. Even when one or two Chosen walk through the shield wall, it falls apart. If a class is reliant on multiple contributions of other players and factors, then by definition, it's not overpowered.

I also notice you chose not to respond to my other points, and will take that as your concessions to those points.
[/quote]

Well going by this definition - the reintroduction of kiting would make ranged overpowered.
[/quote]
What? The factors that enable ranged to reach their potential is the presence of shield walls that prevent ranged from being attacked and interrupted altogether. That's the complete opposite of kiting an open area where pathing, timing, judgment of distance, fast aiming, etc all have to be taken into account to prevent interruption instead of mindlessly shooting behind some meat shields.
[/quote]

You're contradicting yourself.

Anyways the point was that this is not a "classic rpg", your definition is completely absurd. Saying something isn't overpowered because it relies on another class in a TEAMWORK game is laughable. Going by your definition nothing can be overpowered as long as it cant solo an entire run (which archers can).

Not saying I don't wan't kiting - just pointing out your argument is flawed.

[Malong]

[quote author=Malong link=topic=45644.msg240347#msg240347 date=1440485122]
What? The factors that enable ranged to reach their potential is the presence of shield walls that prevent ranged from being attacked and interrupted altogether. That's the complete opposite of kiting an open area where pathing, timing, judgment of distance, fast aiming, etc all have to be taken into account to prevent interruption instead of mindlessly shooting behind some meat shields.

You're contradicting yourself.[/quote]
How? As I've stated, ranged is good when there's protection for it. There's no protection when you're kiting. So it's not overpowered when you're kiting. The act of movement by definition means you're not just rapid firing bots down. It's the shield wall tactic that makes ranged "overpowered" (by others' words, obviously).

Anyways the point was that this is not a "classic rpg", your definition is completely absurd.

First of all, I clearly typed "classic RPG paradigm." The words "classic" and "RPG" are both adjectives modifying the noun of "paradigm." It's a classic paradigm that has existed in rpgs for much, if not all, of the genre's long history. Reading comprehension lesson aside (and I guess I really have to explain how adjectives and nouns work)...

Saying something isn't overpowered because it relies on another class in a TEAMWORK game is laughable.

So it's overpowered as long as you have: 2-3 players shielding, 3-4 players slashing, good shields, good slashing + ranged + projectile weapons, top tier support items, a server with a desirable map, players that know how to peek, and melee players that aren't complete durdles. When you add a long list of prerequisites, it isn't overpowered. And yes it's a teamwork game, but how many hours of the day are there where there is not even enough people to play more than one server? Obviously discount this week where many more people are playing due to loot chance. Even assuming there are at least 17 players online at all times, willing to play Hard or Ragnarok, you still have other non-human factors to consider (their equipment, the servers).

Going by your definition nothing can be overpowered as long as it cant solo an entire run (which archers can).

So as you note, archers (i.e. not even every ranged class) can solo, with these caveats:

* they have good gear
* they are good players
* it's normal or hard modes
** a well geared player kiting and completing modes meant for level 1-31 and level 32-39 characters
* not too many players are on the server so minimal rangers spawn

Much like the group Ragnarok server scenario above, if a bunch of prerequisites happen, they're "overpowered" (in modes that are meant for characters less than a week old).

[Slayer]

Ranged should not be doing anywhere near as much damage as they are doing now. Period.

[Bobo]

Hmm, don't you guys get a feeling it might be time to end this subject?

[Soviet]

Hmm, don't you guys get a feeling it might be time to end this subject?

yes