What is the best 1h for Legio?

[Winter]

@Winter: referring to what you cited I'd say claiming that everyone has his point / opinion about the subject is relevant to the said subject of the best Legio 1h.

Another example if those given previously are not convincing enough: it may be disputable and circumstances dependable if the amount of throwables ammo can be a point of high importance for Legio. In case the said Legio must carry the run and sweep most enemies by himself it may pretty be the winning point. Taking that into consideration VHTA can be found as the best Legio 1h (opinion presented by Kenneth), as it provides Legio with the highest amount of throwables while serving as 1h at the same time. Not the strongest or fastest 1h, not he most powerful throwables, but still most versatile solution.

Another example, pikeman this time: if you stay behind cade best polearm is probably one with long range and lots of piercing damage, like e.g. PoK. If you fight in the open you might do better with something shorter and faster, like Naval. So what is the best polearm? I guess it depends on your favourite play style, skills, etc. Myself I do no good with poking / stabbing weaps, for lack of experience and skill, in result I will not find e.g. Jormungandr any good while someone else would love it.

It is not that clear that stats only and some maths can give the reply to the question, on the contrary IMHO. Perhaps there is no such thing like best weap for everyone. Why bring somebody down for having a different opinion? Atm the voting goes 23 for Excalibur / 20 for DWP / 28 scattered between others.

Which ones of those who voted you find incorrect (or incapable of reading stats and doing mats) and guilty of being flat-earthers with no right to have their opinion in this scientific discussion? Discussion is about ppl giving their opinions. Should for most cases there be one opinion clearly correct while all others clearly incorrect there'd be no room to discuss. Why have the poll then? Computers could do the job. Do we have this forum to discuss or to apply calculations or perhaps simply to agree with those who nominate themselves being always correct by definition?

As a preface, I am paraphrasing your statement "Still, this thread would be damn boring if we wouldn't allow ppl to give their point of view. It would just be simple maths based on stats, so the thread 'what is the best x' would have just one reply and no reason to continue" as "everyone is welcome to their opinion" since it seems you are saying you want people to give their points of view, even if they aren't based on stats and math. Please do tell if that isn't the statement you were trying to make.

My point was that people are making ridiculous suggestions using reasons like "I own it" "I don't own it" and "I want to sell it" without regarding actual data as to how useful it is, what situations they find it useful for, etc. much in the same way flat-earthers (and often enough their opponents, funnily enough) make baseless accusations without proper data/reasoning, and you are excusing it with "diversity is our strength."  I have a feeling you wouldn't value diversity as much if it came in the form of people using only marketplace items and refusing to bring barricades because they want to bring T1 crossbows because they think those are better.  I would hope a post like this would be responded to with reasoning and logic rather than statements of pure opinion.  Certainly there are a few posts that do say something along the lines of "DWP is better for armor piercing, but it is too short" (thank you Woody and others in the first 3 pages for actually discussing stats and situations), but a fair number of posts do not , specifically the ones being discussed in the more recent pages.  My point here is that a thread full of baseless statements with no real reasoning, evidence, or clarification is pointless and only aids in boosting people's post count, and the argument "everyone is welcome to their opinion" is a poor one when deciding the validity of what has been said.  There are valid arguments for different weapons being the best, many of which "if one just looks at stats and thinks abstractly, they can figure it out."  I'd like to see more of those.

Example: I own Odin's sword.  I think it is utterly useless. Does that add anything useful to the thread?

Edit: forgot about this part - "examples of 'best' being debatable with throwables and polearms" (very paraphrased)

Yes. This is exactly the type of discussion I would like to see, rather than "I own one." It is based in stats, logic, and reasoning, not "everyone is welcome to their opinion." I think you missed the point of me pointing out your logical fallacy. I don't think no one can have opinions, I think it is irrelevant to say everyone is welcome to their opinion when someone else points out poor reasoning.

[Sargent Q]

I never Saw the stats before we bought it
And as has been said before stats are NOT all there is to in

You could have easily found the stats. Also relevant (substitute "you learn your class by playing" with "you learn about an item by using it"):

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1. Enforce the rule where people can't trade NordInvasion items for a Non-NordInvasion currency. This was basically a stab in the back for many, and completely shook up the fragile economy NordInvasion has. (We all know the examples, let's not point fingers.) Even though it is hard to investigate, when the rule was still enforced, only minor and less noticeable trades occurred. These trades had only small impacts on the NordInvasion economy, but at least it prevented the majority from doing so. Even if you want to rule to be enforced again, don't complain you don't have the manpower to enforce it, plenty of people have applied to become an admin (consider scaling the team up, if the player-rate starts to increase again).

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I never got a clear answer to this: why do people care about this former rule and/or the lack thereof? I always viewed the situation as equivalent to people who borrowed items from others. The people who constantly borrow items did not "earn" them any more than the people who got undeserved™ loot nor those who bought theirs with money. Yet the former is universally accepted, and there is this illogical (to me) condescension stemming from them despite the fact that they barely/never had to grind with low level items. The only argument I saw once was that you don't know how to "use" the item, but if one just looks at stats and thinks abstractly, they can figure it out. Honestly, in years of playing games, the people I've encountered with the "you learn your class by playing" mentality were amongst the stupidest human beings that had no critical thinking ability.

I do not know what games you have been playing such that you can always be at top performance without having ever touched the class or weapon before. No game i have ever played has been like that.

Warframe, ESO, NI to some extent, Any given PvP game. All have a learn curve to the class.

ESO knowing the class makes the difference between kliving and dying. It makes all the difference doing anything high level. I cannot go into a dungeon using a class i have never played beofre and hope to do well. In PvP its way worse. Since you are fighting other players who have taken the time to learnt he calss and learn the rotations.

Warframe, it takes know the class to be able to use abilities to the best taht they can be used. it takes using any of the non hit scan weapons to be able to learn how they fire and where to aim to hit.

Ni it takes knowing the class a bit to know what you can go for. What you can try to out swing, What you can try to out peak. What you can try to shield long enough for the team to finish off everything else.

The weapons in NI also make the most difference. I was just playing with the Steel Stinger and Ragnar's Wrath earlier today. Steel Stinger has better stats than the Ragnar's in every stat except range. However it felt shorter and slower than the ragnar's. Both were used on the same character.

DWP has the Exact same length as the Dragon Axe. Yet every one i know says dragon axe is shorter. Can you explain that just by looking at the stats without having used either?

I have not played most of the commen PvP games out there. However i have been in ts with people playing it enough to know that it makes a HUGE difference there. CS:GO, LoL, Overwatch, The PvP early access game i did try out. All of them know the class makes a difference.

Bottem line, If you still don't believe me, Try going into ESO and using one of the class. Maxed out everything just completely new to you, against someone with the same setup who has played it for the 100's of hours it takes to get it there. I will guarantee that you will lose in a DPS race and a Dual both.

Swapping weapons for the reason that someone owns it now is Stupid. But it takes having used the weapon to know how it functions in game. Assuming that something is the best Purely by going by the stats does not work.

[Malong]

I do not know what games you have been playing such that you can always be at top performance without having ever touched the class or weapon before.  No game i have ever played has been like that.

Warframe, ESO, NI to some extent,  Any given PvP game.  All have a learn curve to the class.

ESO knowing the class makes the difference between kliving and dying. It makes all the difference doing anything high level. I cannot go into a dungeon using a class i have never played beofre and hope to do well. In PvP its way worse. Since you are fighting other players who have taken the time to learnt he calss and learn the rotations. 

I omitted the word "only," so the phrase should have been "you can only learn your class by playing." Since you asked, I've played all these PvP-focused games: Dark Age of Camelot, Guild Wars, Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Aion, Guild Wars 2 just off the top of my head, and I'm definitely forgetting some. In a lot of those games, my guilds/groups would lend each other accounts to fill the needs for groups. Many good players could easily play classes just from having played with or against them. Or if we wanted to try new classes, we always power leveled them yet managed to figure out how to play the class. This isn't an uncommon phenomenon.

Your class can be figured out in each without level grinding, raiding, and whatever other PvE content just to "practice." The bigger point is that a player understands the concept behind a game mechanic, that player shouldn't need the repetition nor experimentation to enforce it. To bring this back to NI, this definitely applicable to both classes and items. I never played with a bunch of items that have been loaned or given to me. I also didn't put forth effort in leveling anything other than my first two characters (in 2011). After that, I just played safely to guarantee the fastest route to hero (5 or 6 times?). It didn't stop me from figuring out how to play against bad AI in a tower defense game.

The weapons in NI also make the most difference.  I was just playing with the Steel Stinger and Ragnar's Wrath earlier today.  Steel Stinger has better stats than the Ragnar's in every stat except range.  However it felt shorter and slower than the ragnar's. Both were used on the same character.  

DWP has the Exact same length as the Dragon Axe.  Yet every one i know says dragon axe is shorter.  Can you explain that just by looking at the stats without having used either?

It felt shorter and slower or actually is shorter and slower? Was any scientific method used to make these determinations in your experiments? Did you eliminate variables of being on different servers, and hitting targets at the same distance? Swing an arbitrarily large number of times without stopping against an invulnerable stationary bot in a test environment, noting hits at various distances and timing yourself. Then you can calculate their basic aggregate metrics of distance and speed. If the findings are contrary to expectations based on item stats, then sure.

About "feelings" and beliefs: "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."

I have not played most of the commen PvP games out there.  However i have been in ts with people playing it enough to know that it makes a HUGE difference there.  CS:GO, LoL, Overwatch,  The PvP early access game i did try out.  All of them know the class makes a difference.  

Bottem line,  If you still don't believe me,  Try going into ESO and using one of the class.  Maxed out everything just completely new to you, against someone with the same setup who has played it for the 100's of hours it takes to get it there.  I will guarantee that you will lose in a DPS race and a Dual both.  

Swapping weapons for the reason that someone owns it now is Stupid.  But it takes having used the weapon to know how it functions in game.  Assuming that something is the best Purely by going by the stats does not work.

This should be addressed by fixing my previous omission of the word "only" in the above quote.

[DR.]

Think people just under value dragon axe.

Me tarrod (yes he's been afg for years but thats how long its been happening for.) Nka and others think it should maybe even be as much as DWP rag etc at the 10m mark or just more.

It having the navel problem of dropping a lot in a short time made people divalue it. As for now people shit on it even tho some people never even try it. Yea it is short but 105 speed makes up for it and a half to add people forget that it's commando and xbow making it just about a fang for almost 1/10th of the price ATM..

Fang 91 long 60c 101 speed 14-17m
Da 69 long 60c 105 speed 1.5-2.5m

[Winter]

Me tarrod (yes he's been afg for years but thats how long its been happening for.) Nka and others think it should maybe even be as much as DWP rag etc at the 10m mark or just more.

[Nka19]

Me tarrod (yes he's been afg for years but thats how long its been happening for.) Nka and others think it should maybe even be as much as DWP rag etc at the 10m mark or just more.

lol, well dont remember any conversations, but thinking about it, i'd might agree the price is undervalued as i always loved DA when i used it, was my first legenary and i know i never cared to use anything else before, not even DWP untill i tried it and kinda started liking that pierce. But the speed is just fun to choop with DA . Value was always low cause there's been too many of them, and people seems to still wanna stick with the old price even tho there's like 3-6m craftable axe with worse stats that should make DA far more expensive already but yet everyone's ignoring (or not even knowing) that fact.

[Sargent Q]

The weapons in NI also make the most difference.  I was just playing with the Steel Stinger and Ragnar's Wrath earlier today.  Steel Stinger has better stats than the Ragnar's in every stat except range.  However it felt shorter and slower than the ragnar's. Both were used on the same character.  

DWP has the Exact same length as the Dragon Axe.  Yet every one i know says dragon axe is shorter.  Can you explain that just by looking at the stats without having used either?

It felt shorter and slower or actually is shorter and slower? Was any scientific method used to make these determinations in your experiments? Did you eliminate variables of being on different servers, and hitting targets at the same distance? Swing an arbitrarily large number of times without stopping against an invulnerable stationary bot in a test environment, noting hits at various distances and timing yourself. Then you can calculate their basic aggregate metrics of distance and speed. If the findings are contrary to expectations based on item stats, then sure.

About "feelings" and beliefs: "The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it."

If you had ever used a dragon axe you would know what i mean. If you listened to about anyone in the game with any willingness to believe them you would know what i mean. The Dragon axe does not reach as far in use as the DWP. Despite the fact they have the exact same length. Using your argument the Dragon axe should be as good or better than the DWP against all except the heavy armored enemies. Yet I have NEVER see someone take it over the DWP against anything ANYWHERE.

If you insist that the only way to know how good a weapon is, is by looking at the stats of the item and drawing the conclusions from that. Than why are you here? Why are you even trying to argue in this thread? The Original post even stats that its opinion. Opinion does not care about "scientific methods". Opinion is based off of using the weapon in game. There fore what you are arguing is completely contrary to the reason of this thread and if you will not see that there is no reason to argue with you. There is no reason to even listen to you in this thread.

[Winter]

Me tarrod (yes he's been afg for years but thats how long its been happening for.) Nka and others think it should maybe even be as much as DWP rag etc at the 10m mark or just more.

lol, well dont remember any conversations, but thinking about it, i'd might agree the price is undervalued as i always loved DA when i used it, was my first legenary and i know i never cared to use anything else before, not even DWP untill i tried it and kinda started liking that pierce. But the speed is just fun to choop with DA . Value was always low cause there's been too many of them, and people seems to still wanna stick with the old price even tho there's like 3-6m craftable axe with worse stats that should make DA far more expensive already but yet everyone's ignoring (or not even knowing) that fact.

I also like the Dragon Axe and think it is undervalued Poor thing isn't even on the poll.

[DR.]

Me tarrod (yes he's been afg for years but thats how long its been happening for.) Nka and others think it should maybe even be as much as DWP rag etc at the 10m mark or just more.

lol, well dont remember any conversations, but thinking about it, i'd might agree the price is undervalued as i always loved DA when i used it, was my first legenary and i know i never cared to use anything else before, not even DWP untill i tried it and kinda started liking that pierce. But the speed is just fun to choop with DA . Value was always low cause there's been too many of them, and people seems to still wanna stick with the old price even tho there's like 3-6m craftable axe with worse stats that should make DA far more expensive already but yet everyone's ignoring (or not even knowing) that fact.

I also like the Dragon Axe and think it is undervalued  Poor thing isn't even on the poll.

Well, it was 2015? maybe that's why

[Winter]

Me tarrod (yes he's been afg for years but thats how long its been happening for.) Nka and others think it should maybe even be as much as DWP rag etc at the 10m mark or just more.

lol, well dont remember any conversations, but thinking about it, i'd might agree the price is undervalued as i always loved DA when i used it, was my first legenary and i know i never cared to use anything else before, not even DWP untill i tried it and kinda started liking that pierce. But the speed is just fun to choop with DA . Value was always low cause there's been too many of them, and people seems to still wanna stick with the old price even tho there's like 3-6m craftable axe with worse stats that should make DA far more expensive already but yet everyone's ignoring (or not even knowing) that fact.

I also like the Dragon Axe and think it is undervalued  Poor thing isn't even on the poll.

Well, it was 2015? maybe that's why

Erm... What was 2015?  The poll was 2017.