suggestions for Ranger/Halb and Jugg

[DR.]

The problems with this idea

-what do you say to the people that like the heroes you dont like or at least understood it was an option with some benefit even if it was smalll (atm)?

-what do you do with items? What is my leather overall now when i have upgraded tsa if they become for the same hero? You going to give me a item tonken? Lol

-what do you do with the people that have 1 or 2 or all heroes? You going to give me 750k for each hero and refund the xp into gold? I would not even take that deal as starting a new hero means you could not do hard/rag. Not adding you mist out on getting extra kills for more xp/gold and you were probably dead more often.


-conbinding stats in anything in Ni willl result in a nerf. I can't imagine the nerfed stats of two or more classes you like being something you even want over the normal one. If zwei or rg got xbow skill that means 2h/shielding skill may get compromised just to add basic xbow skill/ usability on items. The only exception to this is when the class needs a buff such as leg in the past.

Rg does not need a buff at all i would say its about perfect.

Zwei does need something but none that picked zwei as a hero would want xbow skill when they could either have more hp or better 2h skill. If they want xbow skill they either make/respec/ should have gone one of the 4 xbow heroes. 

I would even take athletics over xbow skill at a certain point.

[Malong]

"You can be a wampire, if you really want to."

What does this reference? I searched the forum and only found this post, and then googled, and didn't find anything.

[Julia.]

Forward, I am fairly certain that some heros might not be specialized in what they can do, but that fies not mean they are useless and can be merged.

I can perfectly shield as Pavise without the (as you said OP) bonus HP, it simply takes good healers at Thor. And even if not, I can bring in better shields for RGs in a lot of cases. Also I am fairly certain that I can bring in a Blessed Eagle as Pavise which I'd say is the best to peek ranged. Cm with Deadshot deals less dps on ranged compared to that because most shots are simply an overkill.

As with Legio, its a complete diffrent play style when you get into melee, and if you claim 1h are useless besides killing tricksters and resetting afk timers... Just no. They are faster than 2h/polearms and do not get stuck so fast. Yes, maybe they dont deal as much damage with one swing but they just aint meant to be there to hit nords at the cades as first purpose.

If all ranged played archer with 2stacks of arrows and a shield, who would kill those breaking through? I guess noone. You need some sort of weapon to kill nords, it wont work if we all hide behind shields and just waited for what to come.

About Pavise Champion:
1. You can't bring better shields for RG, Tower is worse then SoK (for pure shielding purposes).
2. Though someone should kill ranged, you would have more DPS with Repeater/Aila.
3. But CM is not for DPS, it's for boss killing.
4. Merge would be beneficial for both RG and Pavise as Pavise get OP HP and access to top shields and RG be useful in full-caded.
5. If even somehow you convince me that Pavise is needed, I posted 8 mergeable classes we so can talk about other 7

About 1h:
There is no playstyle for getting into melee, and same about Juggernaut. If many bots break through you either kite either wipe. If several bots break through I don't even need 1h as archer, because jump away and headshot solve this problem more efficient then dueling the bot for ages with Power Strike 4 and 1h skill 150. Yes as many classes you can do that, but such self-defence is not main class function anyway.

1. Its better than Aegis and not every RG has an SoK.
2. I might have more DPS with Aila but the Aila and Daggers are just superior over any other class and we can also remove archers. Oh wait there also are bots which aint at the cades, right. Its called ranged bots and I am perfecply capable of killing them with an eagle (as I said better than deadshot or aila).
3. Pavise is not for DPS its fol killing Ranged and helping out at the ceades if nessecary.
4. make the OP inf even more OP? I thought you were the one moaning about it. I rather have less HP and be usefull even if no shielder is needed. Merging them would kinda take all the sense of RGs away in first place, as Pavise allready is some sort of merge between RG and XBow in general.
5. Sure I'll gladly discuss that, you're heard my points about Legio and I am fairly certain I will find points for the other classes I dont know that well. Maybe you should start paying them before saying "It's all the same" because it just aint.

About your self defence: Yes its not your main purpose, I am absolutely fine that you play archer with a shield. I just wanted to point out that just the shield alone wont kill the bot. Also if I have a 1h I can still jump-headshot them whatsoever if needed, having a shield does not increase the ability to kill bots in that way. Legio has the best 1h skill so I'll gladly kill the next trickster for you if nessecary, as thats what I am able to do.

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The problems with this idea

-what do you say to the people that like the heroes you dont like or at least understood it was an option with some benefit even if it was smalll (atm)?

-what do you do with items? What is my leather overall now when i have upgraded tsa if they become for the same hero? You going to give me a item tonken? Lol

-what do you do with the people that have 1 or 2 or all heroes? You going to give me 750k for each hero and refund the xp into gold? I would not even take that deal as starting a new hero means you could not do hard/rag. Not adding you mist out on getting extra kills for more xp/gold and you were probably dead more often.


-conbinding stats in anything in Ni willl result in a nerf. I can't imagine the nerfed stats of two or more classes you like being something you even want over the normal one. If zwei or rg got xbow skill that means 2h/shielding skill may get compromised just to add basic xbow skill/ usability on items. The only exception to this is when the class needs a buff such as leg in the past.

Rg does not need a buff at all i would say its about perfect.

Zwei does need something but none that picked zwei as a hero would want xbow skill when they could either have more hp or better 2h skill. If they want xbow skill they either make/respec/ should have gone one of the 4 xbow heroes. 

I would even take athletics over xbow skill at a certain point.

And I aboslutely agree with those points aswell. Its in the game, there is no way to give a fair change on the items, too many trades have been done. You might not like the class or deem them useless but does that mean you have to merge/remove them? No, it just doesn't. I dont like archer and I do say "Remove Archer, cus they cant tank a single shot and just block ammo with their dumb arrows all the time"? Ofc I don't, its pert of the game and its aboslutely fine how it is. Some classes might need minor changes but there is no reason to merge them all together.

[Forward]

The problems with this idea

-what do you say to the people that like the heroes you dont like or at least understood it was an option with some benefit even if it was smalll (atm)?

-what do you do with items? What is my leather overall now when i have upgraded tsa if they become for the same hero? You going to give me a item tonken? Lol

-what do you do with the people that have 1 or 2 or all heroes? You going to give me 750k for each hero and refund the xp into gold? I would not even take that deal as starting a new hero means you could not do hard/rag. Not adding you mist out on getting extra kills for more xp/gold and you were probably dead more often.


-conbinding stats in anything in Ni willl result in a nerf. I can't imagine the nerfed stats of two or more classes you like being something you even want over the normal one. If zwei or rg got xbow skill that means 2h/shielding skill may get compromised just to add basic xbow skill/ usability on items. The only exception to this is when the class needs a buff such as leg in the past.

Rg does not need a buff at all i would say its about perfect.

Zwei does need something but none that picked zwei as a hero would want xbow skill when they could either have more hp or better 2h skill. If they want xbow skill they either make/respec/ should have gone one of the 4 xbow heroes. 

I would even take athletics over xbow skill at a certain point.

You can use both items/characters whatever. No need to refund, you can use 1 as medic and 1 as engineer for example.
Zwei is ok, I never said anything about removing Zwei, its fine class which pefectly fit slasher specialization. RG already has xbow skill, but it's lame it can't bring xbows.

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4. make the OP inf even more OP? I thought you were the one moaning about it. I rather have less HP and be usefull even if no shielder is needed. Merging them would kinda take all the sense of RGs away in first place, as Pavise allready is some sort of merge between RG and XBow in general.

It's not about OP or not OP. It's about balance. If inf classes have bonus HP, it's OP but whatever, much worse then let's say pikemens dont have that, or pavise. Which classes also supposed to be at front line.

[DR.]

Zwei (+add him xbow skills)

And don't make me laugh having 2 of the same hero doesn't fix anything.

I have said before years ago a gold sink could be made out of a hero support class were the only difference is you can bring both. People that atm have 2 of the same hero did it for quests back in the day or because they main that hero.


I'm not even going to talk about that argument on items...

[Forward]

Zwei (+add him xbow skills)

RG also have xbow skill, I don't see why Zwei can't have the same, there are maps where it's impossible to slash or slashing blocks more ppl then helps.

[DR.]

Zwei (+add him xbow skills)

RG also have xbow skill, I don't see why Zwei can't have the same, there are maps where it's impossible to slash or slashing blocks more ppl then helps.

... You dont even need a hero to see the stats. It has the same basic skill...

Sniper has basic skill in polearms, xbows, throwing, shields, ... so it needs that as well. No.

We have 13 out of the 16 hero being a ranged class and it sounds like you want it to be only 1 that's not "rg".

[Kaasovic]

I guess I can give all Pikeman classes, with the exception of Master Peltast, Aventurier, all archer classes with the exception of Warden extra health when they are in melee mode. Legionnaire would be subject to these changes as well. I guess some kind of cooldown between switching modes could be applied as well to prevent abuse 'n stuff.

As for increasing the health of Juggernaut, maybe. I have been doing some experimenting the last few days and noticed how easy it still is to die as an melee oriented class. As I am all about players having their own play styles I would be up to increase the capabilities of a Juggernaut. Not sure if this is already the case, but once the extra health bar is hit we could make the character immune to stuns (maybe in the form of a warcry), thus opening another play style where a character is able to engage in open combat. I also had an idea where multiple Juggernauts on the field would give small bonuses to the other Juggernauts, kinda like a wolfpack (with a dentist, a dadsboy, an asian, etc...)

As for damage reduction Ranger already has damage reduction on the Gilded Bear Armour, perhaps we could apply it to the craftable ranger armours as well, if we haven't already (sorry for not doing my research). Not really sure about Halbedier, or any Pikeman classes in general, I guess that is still open for discussion.

Hopefully this will give the retarded, and off-topic, discussion in this thread an EOL.

[Forward]

Zwei (+add him xbow skills)

RG also have xbow skill, I don't see why Zwei can't have the same, there are maps where it's impossible to slash or slashing blocks more ppl then helps.

... You dont even need a hero to see the stats. It has the same basic skill...

Sniper has basic skill in polearms, xbows, throwing, shields, ... so it needs that as well. No.

We have 13 out of the 16 hero being a ranged class and it sounds like you want it to be only 1 that's not "rg".

It's much better when every hero might join public run and not be useless when playing full caded.

I'd keep 2 pure slashers in the game: Zwei and merged Mara/Halb. Zwei with added xbow ofc, 3 slots free anyway and something to do on ranged waves or while bots are coming.

[DR.]

I guess I can give all Pikeman classes, with the exception of Master Peltast, Aventurier, all archer classes with the exception of Warden extra health when they are in melee mode. Legionnaire would be subject to these changes as well. I guess some kind of cooldown between switching modes could be applied as well to prevent abuse 'n stuff.

As for increasing the health of Juggernaut, maybe. I have been doing some experimenting the last few days and noticed how easy it still is to die as an melee oriented class. As I am all about players having their own play styles I would be up to increase the capabilities of a Juggernaut. Not sure if this is already the case, but once the extra health bar is hit we could make the character immune to stuns (maybe in the form of a warcry), thus opening another play style where a character is able to engage in open combat. I also had an idea where multiple Juggernauts on the field would give small bonuses to the other Juggernauts, kinda like a wolfpack (with a dentist, a dadsboy, an asian, etc...)

As for damage reduction Ranger already has damage reduction on the Gilded Bear Armour, perhaps we could apply it to the craftable ranger armours as well, if we haven't already (sorry for not doing my research). Not really sure about Halbedier, or any Pikeman classes in general, I guess that is still open for discussion.

Hopefully this will give the retarded, and off-topic, discussion in this thread an EOL.

Do you mean hoplite or Mara becuse avent is the 1h hero on xbow.

Adding extra hp to jugg would be nice but like i said if part or all of it was on top (gets used 1st). It would make jugg a harder class but more rewarding as you could heal yourself so you use the normal hp as back up.

immune to stuns could be a ranger/halb/jugg thing. But maybe you can make it chance related with jugg having the lowest chance.

"Wolfpack" if the buff is not op like the idea. 

damage reduction the ranger armour has it. The request is to give part of the "buff" to each part of the set. There's no reason why the body armour gets 100% of the buff. Leather gloves were bugged once and had1% on them so i know it can be done.