Event Brainstorming and Suggestions

[Terath]

These events are mainly for a change from the standard gameplay, however minor. The rewards, to me, are a secondary bonus although I know to most players it's the primary bonus.

Newer players not participating in runs like these often stem from not knowing that the forum exists, feeling like they don't know anybody in the events or feeling like they aren't good enough to play in large events. I really don't want that to be the case; everybody should be able to participate no matter how new they are and not face any judgement for it. It seems though that it's inevitable that the official events will have more old players in it, since older players would be the ones more interested in a change in gameplay coupled with the rewards. There aren't a lot of ways to get more new players to participate in events, other than the new player joining a house and having a circle of peers to participate with.

I am in no way against hosting events that are specifically focused towards new and casual players, but finding event modes that are enjoyable as well as being productive for a new player is difficult. Marketplace runs are a good place to start, but for a new player, it is potentially just a standard run - although having old players assisting new players would be very beneficial. This is definitely something for me to think about.
Hosting the standard game mode on Normal or Hard difficulty would be a good start to becoming more inclusive, since IIRC the only official events hosted are Ragnarok. My main concern is that there aren't enough new players to support these events, although one could argue that the reason there aren't enough new players is because there aren't enough of these events.

This is unexplored territory for me as a developer, so please bear with me while I try to figure things out. If I don't end up being good at hosting or organizing events, well, nothing ventured nothing gained.

To Forward:
Most of these events are not designed to be competitive, besides Endurance and House competition.
House competition is not PVP. It focuses on one house vs. another house, PvE. The House Competition mode is two houses fighting bots until one of the houses dies, not two houses fighting against each other in PvP. Right now, the number of  houses is small, but I hope with more house-focused events (not more house events), there will be more of a reason to have a house.
Defend the King is not competitive either. If you win the mode, you get the prize. There is no 'first' prize, just 'the prize'. You are not fighting against other players for the top reward. If the Summer Challenge is anything to base off of, one developer as a Nord is hardly enough to be called PvP. Call it PvP if you want, but it is not the main point of the mode at all.
About nostalgia; the old maps are really, really buggy, and not built for things like AoE Gungnir rain, barricading or shotgun bows. There are almost no maps I can recommend from those times that would be acceptable as a submission today. It's still really fun to see how the game used to be, though.
Endurance -- not liking competitive modes is fine, just don't participate and wait for a different event. Some players like them, some players don't. It doesn't make the mode itself bad. All of the modes suggested are not PvP - they are modes designed to cover a lot of ground so that no player's ideal event is left out. Just like how you thought Nostalgia would be fun, someone else might think Endurance would be more fun - it's all subjective. And, honestly, I'd rather not have more RnG rewards. There's enough of those in the base game.

[Forward]

Also might be worth considering Marketplace run with ability to pick up nord weapons/arrows/bolts/throwables, even shields maybe. Same equal ground for everyone, but easier and more dynamic. Obviously with specially designed nord weapons where almost (if not all) things would be pickable.

Ofc various players like various event ideas. But I remember April servers and we had spike of new players in the mod, many people would like to play NI if it was more new player friendly. Some players even have difficulty to get player crafted gear in the first place, it's too hard to find people to craft this and that, and many people don't want to communicate at all and see that as difficulty, they will rather play more casual game or mod. NI has no future if making content only for 20 (maybe 30) most dedicated players.

Many games have both casual-friendly and more competitive modes, even MMORPGs where all characters might uses same PvP gear and level, but need to gather gear for PvE for example. Or card games with draft modes where players don't need to have any collection to succeed. Implementing similar mode in NI might help, whatever it will be called event or not. Maybe even several rotating events with no or lowered gear requirement.

EDIT: Another idea: seasons. Everyone making new character and compete in event servers. No materials drop. No craft. All items (player/house craftable and legendaries/upgraded legendaries) drop from bots. Legendaries drop rate like x100-x1000, so everyone might get top gear fast. Also might be experiments like crafting random legendary from 4 legendaries and similar ideas like Woody posts usually here. Ofc all gear not equippable to non-season characters. After season end (~3 months or so) players get I don't know some amount of gold/materials/collectibles/even legendaries for things they collected in the season, and seasoned characters reset. Might be pause between seasons. Should be good for both new and old players.

[DR.]

And you not answered my point about casual players/wide community involvement. There is no reason making events for 2.5 alive houses and rewarding already rich players. Elitism is killing this mod.

Ofc various players like various event ideas. But I remember April servers and we had spike of new players in the mod, many people would like to play NI if it was more new player friendly. Some players even have difficulty to get player crafted gear in the first place, it's too hard to find people to craft this and that, and many people don't want to communicate at all and see that as difficulty, they will rather play more casual game or mod. NI has no future if making content only for 20 (maybe 30) most dedicated players.

Many games have both casual-friendly and more competitive modes, even MMORPGs where all characters might uses same PvP gear and level, but need to gather gear for PvE for example. Or card games with draft modes where players don't need to have any collection to succeed. Implementing similar mode in NI might help, whatever it will be called event or not. Maybe even several rotating events with no or lowered gear requirement.

What you have pointed out in saying this is we have a problem, yes but I think its some were else. I think this mod has a retention problem not a "We need more new people one".

You say elitism is killing this mod... Elitism pointed at the 1% or just wealthy people but is that really the problem for dwindling player numbers? Are you blaming the people that have stayed to play this game the reason why others have left? really?

This mod at this point needs to be more focused on veteran player to keep them playing vs new players. Imagine if the some of the most veteran players did say "Ye im done" basically more people like NKA. Its this is what will kill the game. Without the elite in the game, the game will be dead vs without new players at least the game has the core people to run Ni as long as it can.

I think the best example of what I'm saying would be an analogy.

New games are a bucket where the aim is to fill the bucket up with players. In turn, they will make its very focused on the new person as they have no one.

5+ year old game like Ni is a filled bucket with holes in it with new but mostly old players dripping out every day. The aim here is to repair the holes in the game for why the new and old people are leaving.  

The aim of a game like Ni is to hold us, players, as long as it can. Ni has proven over the years it works for new players. If you leave on week one well this game was probably not for you anyway. We have beginner that most elite didn't have and runs are more successful with better gear and better game knowledge now. This game is pretty good with its new players already. Yes, it could be better but my point is it worked for us when we had less so it still works today. 

Don't take this as I want the game to be focused around me... I want this game to be focused on someone that got bored of doing 1 rag run after another. AKA. I think this mod has a retention problem.

No new player is bored they just need help or a hand to get to the exit. New players come in all the time from people telling others about this mod and other means. I don't think this mod needs to focus on the new aspect much if any at this point. It would be good to point out the new player is different to the player thats idk a few weeks old in my mind. I do agree newish player may have a problem getting things crafted but this, in turn, this is a veteran problem of we don't have as many people that want to craft for people. Go look any of my crafting requests and you will see this on a basic level. Why should I craft for other people?

EDIT: Another idea: seasons. Everyone making new character and compete in event servers. No materials drop. No craft. All items (player/house craftable and legendaries/upgraded legendaries) drop from bots. Legendaries drop rate like x100-x1000, so everyone might get top gear fast. Also might be experiments like crafting random legendary from 4 legendaries and similar ideas like Woody posts usually here. Ofc all gear not equippable to non-season characters. After season end (~3 months or so) players get I don't know some amount of gold/materials/collectibles/even legendaries for things they collected in the season, and seasoned characters reset. Might be pause between seasons. Should be good for both new and old players.

https://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthread.php?tid=42958

I think the community has had the time to think about events like this. 

Anyway, I don't want more legendaries ingame till we find out what we are doing craftables and the influx of mats to the market. 

I'm not sure were Terath is on this anymore but I remember him saying in his mind the avg player has light blue stuff. Guess this was years ago at this point but I did agree on it a bit. I think a team with no legendaries should be able to do all modes not easily but well enough. No one should "need" legendaries they should be the want when either Light or Dark Blue is the real need. In saying this no legendary should seem overly op even more so with the upgraded version so its a careful balance. I've said this before but gear should be balanced from the top downwards. Make all upgrades as good as you want them to be then make house craftables good enough to do all modes. This will tell you how good a normal orange and red legendary should be and from this info, you can make the rest of the crafted gear as good as you need to. 

The newer player should want legendaries sure but they should need the crafted stuff in the meantime. Players are not using 25-50% of gear because the community has deemed it as useless. Its the same with maps... Players are not using 25-50% of maps because the community has deemed it as useless.

We have content in this game that is heavily underutilized and it's this that should be worked on.

[Cut-Me-Own-Throat-Dibbler]

5+ year old game like Ni is a filled bucket with holes in it with new but mostly old players dripping out every day. The aim here is to repair the holes in the game for why the new and old people are leaving.

I think NI lacks a more varied "endgame" content. The current endgame content consists solely of getting increasingly expensive/powerful legendaries, but that process is so painfully slow (unless you have connections or dumb luck), that many players either give up or take very long breaks. Ideally there would be more to do than just grind for those legendaries, but that would require a lot of work and effort, and I have no idea if there's anyone capable and willing to do that.

Anyway, those events sound like fun.

[Green_Dragon]

5+ year old game like Ni is a filled bucket with holes in it with new but mostly old players dripping out every day. The aim here is to repair the holes in the game for why the new and old people are leaving.

I think NI lacks more "endgame" content. The current endgame content is getting increasingly expensive/powerful legendaries, but that process is so painfully slow (unless you have connections or dumb luck), that many players either give up or take very long breaks. Ideally there would be more to do than just grind for those legendaries, but that would require a lot of work and effort, and I have no idea if there's anyone capable and willing to do that.

Anyway, those events sound like fun.

That! and...

The best thing, yet not the easiest to implement would be a point system for legendaries. It even doesn't really matter in which
shape or form it comes but it would offer a clear perspective on progress. The other thing would be a review of quests. The point
system has been proposed in forums various times and would have an equally significant impact on motivation to play NI as the
mat-loot update already had.

[DR.]

5+ year old game like Ni is a filled bucket with holes in it with new but mostly old players dripping out every day. The aim here is to repair the holes in the game for why the new and old people are leaving.

I think NI lacks more "endgame" content. The current endgame content is getting increasingly expensive/powerful legendaries, but that process is so painfully slow (unless you have connections or dumb luck), that many players either give up or take very long breaks. Ideally there would be more to do than just grind for those legendaries, but that would require a lot of work and effort, and I have no idea if there's anyone capable and willing to do that.

Anyway, those events sound like fun.

That! and...

The best thing, yet not the easiest to implement would be a point system for legendaries. It even doesn't really matter in which
shape or form it comes but it would offer a clear perspective on progress. The other thing would be a review of quests. The point
system has been proposed in forums various times and would have an equally significant impact on motivation to play NI as the
mat-loot update already had.

No one really complains about the drop rate of mats as its hard to tell who is the lucky one with mats being so plentiful. I don't want legendaries to be plentiful. The drop rate for this game in terms of legendaries is fair but because of the rarity of it the outliers that loot a lot or not much stick out like a sore thumb. 

Making legendaries into craftables would do to solve that problem. The way people make legendaries is looting parts of an [X] legendary so you need a certain amount of parts before you can craft that legendary. Doing this means you can up the drop rate of parts for however many parts you need to make that legendary. This way the drop rate of legendaries feels more consistent for the community. Say if I needed 10 x Worm Bane parts to make a Worm Bane. The drop rate for parts can go up to match this. 

Quests speak for themselves as they are a clear goal. Some people have susggest login bouns... Eh... If it was something people could do on phones sure but I dont think the game should incentivize that type of gameplay. What I think could work is if you had weekly or monthly hell even yearly quests given players can do it when they want. Quests like this can be different each time as maybe one week it focuses on rag but the next week its normal. Yearly quests could be like the long haul but it in terms of you need to complete this many runs etc.

Quests have a lot of potential thats for sure.

[Forward]

And you not answered my point about casual players/wide community involvement. There is no reason making events for 2.5 alive houses and rewarding already rich players. Elitism is killing this mod.

Ofc various players like various event ideas. But I remember April servers and we had spike of new players in the mod, many people would like to play NI if it was more new player friendly. Some players even have difficulty to get player crafted gear in the first place, it's too hard to find people to craft this and that, and many people don't want to communicate at all and see that as difficulty, they will rather play more casual game or mod. NI has no future if making content only for 20 (maybe 30) most dedicated players.

Many games have both casual-friendly and more competitive modes, even MMORPGs where all characters might uses same PvP gear and level, but need to gather gear for PvE for example. Or card games with draft modes where players don't need to have any collection to succeed. Implementing similar mode in NI might help, whatever it will be called event or not. Maybe even several rotating events with no or lowered gear requirement.

What you have pointed out in saying this is we have a problem, yes but I think its some were else. I think this mod has a retention problem not a "We need more new people one".

You say elitism is killing this mod... Elitism pointed at the 1% or just wealthy people but is that really the problem for dwindling player numbers? Are you blaming the people that have stayed to play this game the reason why others have left? really?

This mod at this point needs to be more focused on veteran player to keep them playing vs new players. Imagine if the some of the most veteran players did say "Ye im done" basically more people like NKA. Its this is what will kill the game. Without the elite in the game, the game will be dead vs without new players at least the game has the core people to run Ni as long as it can.

I think the best example of what I'm saying would be an analogy.

New games are a bucket where the aim is to fill the bucket up with players. In turn, they will make its very focused on the new person as they have no one.

5+ year old game like Ni is a filled bucket with holes in it with new but mostly old players dripping out every day. The aim here is to repair the holes in the game for why the new and old people are leaving.  

The aim of a game like Ni is to hold us, players, as long as it can. Ni has proven over the years it works for new players. If you leave on week one well this game was probably not for you anyway. We have beginner that most elite didn't have and runs are more successful with better gear and better game knowledge now. This game is pretty good with its new players already. Yes, it could be better but my point is it worked for us when we had less so it still works today. 

Don't take this as I want the game to be focused around me... I want this game to be focused on someone that got bored of doing 1 rag run after another. AKA. I think this mod has a retention problem.

No new player is bored they just need help or a hand to get to the exit. New players come in all the time from people telling others about this mod and other means. I don't think this mod needs to focus on the new aspect much if any at this point. It would be good to point out the new player is different to the player thats idk a few weeks old in my mind. I do agree newish player may have a problem getting things crafted but this, in turn, this is a veteran problem of we don't have as many people that want to craft for people. Go look any of my crafting requests and you will see this on a basic level. Why should I craft for other people?

I pointed at April event as an example of event both good for old and new players. Designing events suitable for new players doesn't mean they should be bad for old ones.
You should not craft for other people, indeed. It could be solved by events without gear requirement or by simplifying whole craft system.
Many 'old' players you talk about not even really play outside house events. House events don't evolve community, public runs do. Same with retention, people will return to mod with alive pubs/public events, not to the mod with super-mega-custom-house events.

EDIT: Another idea: seasons. Everyone making new character and compete in event servers. No materials drop. No craft. All items (player/house craftable and legendaries/upgraded legendaries) drop from bots. Legendaries drop rate like x100-x1000, so everyone might get top gear fast. Also might be experiments like crafting random legendary from 4 legendaries and similar ideas like Woody posts usually here. Ofc all gear not equippable to non-season characters. After season end (~3 months or so) players get I don't know some amount of gold/materials/collectibles/even legendaries for things they collected in the season, and seasoned characters reset. Might be pause between seasons. Should be good for both new and old players.

https://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthread.php?tid=42958

I think the community has had the time to think about events like this. 

Anyway, I don't want more legendaries ingame till we find out what we are doing craftables and the influx of mats to the market. 

I'm not sure were Terath is on this anymore but I remember him saying in his mind the avg player has light blue stuff. Guess this was years ago at this point but I did agree on it a bit. I think a team with no legendaries should be able to do all modes not easily but well enough. No one should "need" legendaries they should be the want when either Light or Dark Blue is the real need. In saying this no legendary should seem overly op even more so with the upgraded version so its a careful balance. I've said this before but gear should be balanced from the top downwards. Make all upgrades as good as you want them to be then make house craftables good enough to do all modes. This will tell you how good a normal orange and red legendary should be and from this info, you can make the rest of the crafted gear as good as you need to. 

The newer player should want legendaries sure but they should need the crafted stuff in the meantime. Players are not using 25-50% of gear because the community has deemed it as useless. Its the same with maps... Players are not using 25-50% of maps because the community has deemed it as useless.

We have content in this game that is heavily underutilized and it's this that should be worked on.

My idea was about making mode without crafting and trading at all, where all gear either bought on the market or looted. Crafting and trading are big hurdles for new players. As for housecrafteds balance, these items might be good for you or me, but new player thinks another way. No one will blame his own skill when can blame bad items.
About useless gear community is right, there are no reasons to use suboptimal classes/gear, it could work on Normal, but goal is perform well on Rag. It's different with maps, though. Some maps deemed bad because bad on Rag, though nothing prevents playing them on lower modes. Just yesterday I played normal pub with newbies, they told me 'bad map, go change server', I just told them 'no' and showed place to cade, where we easily won. They afraid to do something they did't see before, we need just show them. Just don't play Juggernaut, you'll teach them bad.

[DR.]

I pointed at April event as an example of event both good for old and new players. Designing events suitable for new players doesn't mean they should be bad for old ones.

...

I'm more in favour of server side events that go for weeks as this is a game were people play from multiple time zones. Going to events at certain times will always favour some and not others. For the event being fun or rewarding is something that comes 2nd to the people that need to make a decision "is it worth staying up for this shit".

I've done my fair share of 1 off events and most of the time for me and other Au players they are at ridiculous times being either suited for na or eu.

Like those events, more in that factor but events that are server-side are heavily limited.

You should not craft for other people, indeed. It could be solved by events without gear requirement or by simplifying whole craft system.

You are Implying server-side events were it gives you gear to use. What happens when it's not that event?  

How does "Simplifying whole craft system" fix the problem of me needed to craft stuff for other people for free?

The options are
A. Give everyone max crafting for free and refund the crafting XP to the people that have it
B. Make crafting rewarding for the crafter
C. Give a reason for why I would want to craft for people. Once again a reward in some sort.

I've suggested all of that and more as I really don't care how it's done. Either give me a reason for why I should help random people or make crafting easier to do for everyone.

Many 'old' players you talk about not even really play outside house events. House events don't evolve community, public runs do. Same with retention, people will return to mod with alive pubs/public events, not to the mod with super-mega-custom-house events.

They don't play outside of events because they are bored of either carrying on normal or wiping on rag.

I disagree with you saying players will come back to server-side events more than a custom event. What evidence do you have? I think the reward aspect is what makes players want to give Ni a go again for events. Sure if we just got 2 weeks for 2x Xp that will bring some people back but I would take a guess that It would bring in more players than an event were its custom server-side items they don't get to keep.

Yes if the event offers something new thats another factor that will bring in people. For server-side events, we have fewer options so less way to make it new. I may like server-side events more but I can see the grate potential in events given rules can be apply and taken away. Server-side events need to run by itself but normal events can involve planning beforehand and things only devs can do in server.

My idea was about making mode without crafting and trading at all, where all gear either bought on the market or looted. Crafting and trading are big hurdles for new players.

https://forum.nordinvasion.com/showthread.php?tid=57535

What is Ni to you? Progression is everything to Ni.

The Fluffy house failed when you realise the fun of being new is not why you like Ni but if you do it can be done in the normal game. Sure its fun to start again but why do so? You get the same feeling when making a new hero on real servers. It's the same experience... Hell, I joinned a beginner server with almost 10 red shirts, not too long ago.  

Without trading is something I have in my notes to maybe suggest for Ni 2 if it ever happens. Just 1 problem out of the 100 here is how do you make sure they don't with the current system?

About useless gear community is right, there are no reasons to use suboptimal classes/gear, it could work on Normal, but goal is perform well on Rag.

I completely agree with gear. Why use a house-crafted pike when the Orange ones cost less.

Class wise some may be suboptimal sure but it's subjective you find no reason to play them. To play Senti even tho is objectively the class that needs the most help at lest is does something to Its own.

It's different with maps, though. Some maps deemed bad because bad on Rag, though nothing prevents playing them on lower modes. Just don't play Juggernaut, you'll teach them bad.

Like how classes can be deemed better than others with objectively reasoning the same can be done with maps.

Just because maps don't have stats we can see we can still look at the layout of the map and see what ones are better. Yes some things in maps will be subjective like the main cade area being close or far to spawn. Other things like the number of anvils, ammo, health, cades spots, peeking spots, ... is objective.

I'm sure you can think of a few maps where you only have 1 main cade spot or maps that you cant kite or even maps were the player spawn is closer to the bots one.

Its harder to say what makes a good map and what doesn't but it can be done and shown. A good map has everything or almost but a bad map has fewer options.  

Just don't play Juggernaut, you'll teach them bad.

Subjective.

[Forward]

@Woody
Will not quote, too long.
1. Giving everyone max player/house craft is an option. It's basically already done just outside game engine by Winter community crafting account anyway.
2. People hate to spend time to organize or shchedule something. They just want run in the progress they might join and have fun without any preparation. Being rewarded as well.
3. x2 server-events is laziest thing I can imagine.
4. Fluffy house is opposite to what I have in mind. If I understood it correclty it was competitive-oriented event, like PoE league. Same shit as in main game, but from start. And I propose casual-oriented seasons with greatly simplified gearing, without crafting, registering and such. Just join and play, at season end get gold/materials or legendary reward depends on your season performance.
5. On normal and hard there are no bad maps, only bad players. On Rag all maps can be done too with good team. Thing is new players often bring ideas they saw on rag into their normal runs which is often wrong. But we went off-topic with that.

[DR.]

2. People hate to spend time to organize or shchedule something. They just want run in the progress they might join and have fun without any preparation. Being rewarded as well.

Subjective and not all events are organized by teams as such. Some events are just you sign up for the event at this time.

The best rewards cant come from a server-side event the best things it has offed is Pink stuff other than the legendary week. The best stuff from normal events can be grater given...

Being competitive outlines a winner and a loser meaning prizes can be given out accordingly.

Both event types can happen at the same time. I may as well say that.

3. x2 server-events is laziest thing I can imagine.

So you don't disagree

I think the reward aspect is what makes players want to give Ni a go again for events. Sure if we just got 2 weeks for 2x Xp that will bring some people back but I would take a guess that It would bring in more players than an event were its custom server-side items they don't get to keep.

4. Fluffy house is opposite to what I have in mind. If I understood it correclty it was competitive-oriented event, like PoE league. Same shit as in main game, but from start. And I propose casual-oriented seasons with greatly simplified gearing, without crafting, registering and such. Just join and play, at season end get gold/materials or legendary reward depends on your season performance.

How is that casual. Anyway, why should a system reward you for making a new class on the bases you did it on this server and not that one?

Also like i said...

Sure its fun to start again but why do so? You get the same feeling when making a new hero on real servers. It's the same experience... Hell, I joined a beginner server with almost 10 red shirts, not too long ago.  

Without trading is something I have in my notes to maybe suggest for Ni 2 if it ever happens. Just 1 problem out of the 100 here is how do you make sure they don't with the current system?

5. On normal and hard there are no bad maps, only bad players. On Rag all maps can be done too with good team. Thing is new players often bring ideas they saw on rag into their normal runs which is often wrong. But we went off-topic with that.

What? No its a map it doesn't change magically for what mode you play on. It may be harder to tell as of the more casual play but it doesn't change the fact it's a bad map or a good one.

If they bring idea's they see on rag and use them on normal its not "wrong" its suboptimal. There no right or wrong way to play the game here but we have suboptimal being casual then optimal being hardcore.

Even if you wipe on wave 1 you can't say they are playing the game wrong if for some reason they enjoy it as a team.