Attempt to buff commando's part 3.14159

[darnocslew]

Cades are mostly placed with a shieldergap if there is a RG with good shields on the server. I know from my own past (RG was the first hero I had) that it's a pain to save money up to finally get a good shield, such as Aegis. My tip here: Once you reached hero, you should focus on a shield above armor/weapons. If you try to shield rag or the later hard waves, such as entranced berserkers with a weak shield, you will die. As it should be your main aim to survive, cading up does make sense here. To help your team you can grab medboxes or an xbow (with the xbow you deal the same damage as any xbow-class, you just reload slower) to help your team. Or if there is a Zwei bringing in decent shields, just ask for it. He will gladly pass it on to you (mostly) as this allows him slashing. But once you shield, don't run out unless actually nessecary as the most annoying thing is a dead RG if noone else is dead and a tome has to be used for you. If that happens frequently players will prefer cading up again before they let you shield. As RG you should play save and not rush like a headless-chicken.

I get that, but it's a way of requiring people to bring shielders so they can succeed. If people learn they can't just chuck a barricade up and sit behind it because it will fall after 20 hits. Then they are more likely to invest in a infantry class or at least try to get an infantry class on so they can actually progress. Ofc that creates the issue of what if you don't have a melee on hand. But then again that's what this mod from what I remember is about, working as a team to get to the higher levels and kill the boss. If you don't work as a team or don't have a team, you're not going to reach the end, simple as that.

[Pavel]

My only infantry character is a Commando at the moment as I only have 300k and i'm saving up for RG. If i'm not in a Normal Server I feel completely useless as I do not have a good enough shield and shielding and I will be overwhelmed if I charge. I have used my two handed sword to kill bots through the cades but I once had a deployable shield placed behind me before to push me into the range of the bots swords so I died because I was 'blocking the ranged'. I saw in your video that the guy was wearing some good armour, but a lot of commando's including myself do not have such good armour, mine is mostly from the marketplace. So I die in a couple of hits on a Hard Server, this would help me to face off multiple bots with my bad armour because of the slow regen.

Agreed.. I find people too easily put up cades and just sit behind them shooting AI. Cades need to be used as a funnel for the AI. Not as a barrier to stop them completely.. They should have their health nerfed so it is required to have a shielder taking most of the damage from a wave, whilst having slashers assisting the shielder by reducing the amount of incoming damage and archers thinning out the horde as they come.

Cades are mostly placed with a shieldergap if there is a RG with good shields on the server. I know from my own past (RG was the first hero I had) that it's a pain to save money up to finally get a good shield, such as Aegis. My tip here: Once you reached hero, you should focus on a shield above armor/weapons. If you try to shield rag or the later hard waves, such as entranced berserkers with a weak shield, you will die. As it should be your main aim to survive, cading up does make sense here. To help your team you can grab medboxes or an xbow (with the xbow you deal the same damage as any xbow-class, you just reload slower) to help your team. Or if there is a Zwei bringing in decent shields, just ask for it. He will gladly pass it on to you (mostly) as this allows him slashing. But once you shield, don't run out unless actually nessecary as the most annoying thing is a dead RG if noone else is dead and a tome has to be used for you. If that happens frequently players will prefer cading up again before they let you shield. As RG you should play save and not rush like a headless-chicken.

Julia, I think what Darnocslew meant is that while what you said about RG and cades is supposed to be happening, what usually happens is cades are used to completely block off the nords which in turn makes RG (and infantry in general) obsolete - I'd say 2 in every 3 runs I do end up this way. Perhaps developers should consider setting a limit to the amount of cades players can bring in (in a similar manner to tomes) as, as I said, often there are so many cades in the game it kills the point of using infantry - and YES I know beating Thor in this manner is not easy but I have seen him die to this simple "strategy" plenty of times.

[Malong]

Cades are mostly placed with a shieldergap if there is a RG with good shields on the server. I know from my own past (RG was the first hero I had) that it's a pain to save money up to finally get a good shield, such as Aegis. My tip here: Once you reached hero, you should focus on a shield above armor/weapons. If you try to shield rag or the later hard waves, such as entranced berserkers with a weak shield, you will die. As it should be your main aim to survive, cading up does make sense here. To help your team you can grab medboxes or an xbow (with the xbow you deal the same damage as any xbow-class, you just reload slower) to help your team. Or if there is a Zwei bringing in decent shields, just ask for it. He will gladly pass it on to you (mostly) as this allows him slashing. But once you shield, don't run out unless actually nessecary as the most annoying thing is a dead RG if noone else is dead and a tome has to be used for you. If that happens frequently players will prefer cading up again before they let you shield. As RG you should play save and not rush like a headless-chicken.

I get that, but it's a way of requiring people to bring shielders so they can succeed. If people learn they can't just chuck a barricade up and sit behind it because it will fall after 20 hits. Then they are more likely to invest in a infantry class or at least try to get an infantry class on so they can actually progress. Ofc that creates the issue of what if you don't have a melee on hand. But then again that's what this mod from what I remember is about, working as a team to get to the higher levels and kill the boss. If you don't work as a team or don't have a team, you're not going to reach the end, simple as that.

You should cater yourself to the team rather than expect 15 others to accommodate your wishes.

[Pavel]

Cades are mostly placed with a shieldergap if there is a RG with good shields on the server. I know from my own past (RG was the first hero I had) that it's a pain to save money up to finally get a good shield, such as Aegis. My tip here: Once you reached hero, you should focus on a shield above armor/weapons. If you try to shield rag or the later hard waves, such as entranced berserkers with a weak shield, you will die. As it should be your main aim to survive, cading up does make sense here. To help your team you can grab medboxes or an xbow (with the xbow you deal the same damage as any xbow-class, you just reload slower) to help your team. Or if there is a Zwei bringing in decent shields, just ask for it. He will gladly pass it on to you (mostly) as this allows him slashing. But once you shield, don't run out unless actually nessecary as the most annoying thing is a dead RG if noone else is dead and a tome has to be used for you. If that happens frequently players will prefer cading up again before they let you shield. As RG you should play save and not rush like a headless-chicken.

I get that, but it's a way of requiring people to bring shielders so they can succeed. If people learn they can't just chuck a barricade up and sit behind it because it will fall after 20 hits. Then they are more likely to invest in a infantry class or at least try to get an infantry class on so they can actually progress. Ofc that creates the issue of what if you don't have a melee on hand. But then again that's what this mod from what I remember is about, working as a team to get to the higher levels and kill the boss. If you don't work as a team or don't have a team, you're not going to reach the end, simple as that.

I think think mod used to about working as team. The use of too many barricades seems to have changed that. There is no teamwork involved in standing in one place for 15 waves while pressing the LMB. I'm not attacking people who enjoy this kind of gameplay, I just think that reducing the usefulness of barricades will bring about a fresh change to the mod's current state

[DR.]

I think mod used to about working as team.

Has it changed that much in the week I've been afg for?

[Pavel]

I think mod used to about working as team.

Has it changed that much in the week I've been afg for?

I don't get this sarcasm. Try pointing out where the teamwork is in what I said about completely blocking off the nords and showering them with arrows and javelins. I guess the only resemblance of teamwork would be the guy building the cades?

P.S. In fact I've even noticed that sometimes at the start of the game some people will immediately proceed to cade off the usual map spot despite the presence of shielders (and slashers).

[Malong]

Cades are mostly placed with a shieldergap if there is a RG with good shields on the server. I know from my own past (RG was the first hero I had) that it's a pain to save money up to finally get a good shield, such as Aegis. My tip here: Once you reached hero, you should focus on a shield above armor/weapons. If you try to shield rag or the later hard waves, such as entranced berserkers with a weak shield, you will die. As it should be your main aim to survive, cading up does make sense here. To help your team you can grab medboxes or an xbow (with the xbow you deal the same damage as any xbow-class, you just reload slower) to help your team. Or if there is a Zwei bringing in decent shields, just ask for it. He will gladly pass it on to you (mostly) as this allows him slashing. But once you shield, don't run out unless actually nessecary as the most annoying thing is a dead RG if noone else is dead and a tome has to be used for you. If that happens frequently players will prefer cading up again before they let you shield. As RG you should play save and not rush like a headless-chicken.

I get that, but it's a way of requiring people to bring shielders so they can succeed. If people learn they can't just chuck a barricade up and sit behind it because it will fall after 20 hits. Then they are more likely to invest in a infantry class or at least try to get an infantry class on so they can actually progress. Ofc that creates the issue of what if you don't have a melee on hand. But then again that's what this mod from what I remember is about, working as a team to get to the higher levels and kill the boss. If you don't work as a team or don't have a team, you're not going to reach the end, simple as that.

I think think mod used to about working as team. The use of too many barricades seems to have changed that. There is no teamwork involved in standing in one place for 15 waves while pressing the LMB. I'm not attacking people who enjoy this kind of gameplay, I just think that reducing the usefulness of barricades will bring about a fresh change to the mod's current state

Let's clarify something: you are conflating "people don't play how I want them to" and "people don't use teamwork." These aren't equivalent statements. In fact, forcing people to play as you want to play is just enforcing your will over theirs and is just the statement that your wishes are more important than others.

But anyway, do you think having someone press RMB and then U and go AFK (instead of LMB) is any more cooperative? Because that's what shielders did, and still do, for years. That was not any more cooperative than what happens in some instances now when you barricade off.

[DR.]

I think mod used to about working as team.

Has it changed that much in the week I've been afg for?

I don't get this sarcasm. Try pointing out where the teamwork is in what I said about completely blocking off the nords and showering them with arrows and javelins. I guess the only resemblance of teamwork would be the guy building the cades?

Its still about working as a team just its got a problem. If it was not you would be able to solo rag just as easily but more importantly, as quick a full 20/16 sever. 

Ye, I agree that inf out of the 4 classes its well the most... etc but I feel like people are overblowing how inf is... 

Inf just struggles with the problem of 1 inf in a sever out of 16 is almost useless but if 1/4th is inf well I see no problem or less of one. For the problem of cading of well it's just something, we have done for years when we get certain maps and times when we have less than 2 inf are present.

[Pavel]

Cades are mostly placed with a shieldergap if there is a RG with good shields on the server. I know from my own past (RG was the first hero I had) that it's a pain to save money up to finally get a good shield, such as Aegis. My tip here: Once you reached hero, you should focus on a shield above armor/weapons. If you try to shield rag or the later hard waves, such as entranced berserkers with a weak shield, you will die. As it should be your main aim to survive, cading up does make sense here. To help your team you can grab medboxes or an xbow (with the xbow you deal the same damage as any xbow-class, you just reload slower) to help your team. Or if there is a Zwei bringing in decent shields, just ask for it. He will gladly pass it on to you (mostly) as this allows him slashing. But once you shield, don't run out unless actually nessecary as the most annoying thing is a dead RG if noone else is dead and a tome has to be used for you. If that happens frequently players will prefer cading up again before they let you shield. As RG you should play save and not rush like a headless-chicken.

I get that, but it's a way of requiring people to bring shielders so they can succeed. If people learn they can't just chuck a barricade up and sit behind it because it will fall after 20 hits. Then they are more likely to invest in a infantry class or at least try to get an infantry class on so they can actually progress. Ofc that creates the issue of what if you don't have a melee on hand. But then again that's what this mod from what I remember is about, working as a team to get to the higher levels and kill the boss. If you don't work as a team or don't have a team, you're not going to reach the end, simple as that.

I think think mod used to about working as team. The use of too many barricades seems to have changed that. There is no teamwork involved in standing in one place for 15 waves while pressing the LMB. I'm not attacking people who enjoy this kind of gameplay, I just think that reducing the usefulness of barricades will bring about a fresh change to the mod's current state

Let's clarify something: you are conflating "people don't play how I want them to" and "people don't use teamwork." These aren't equivalent statements. In fact, forcing people to play as you want to play is just enforcing your will over theirs and is just the statement that your wishes are more important than others.

But anyway, do you think having someone press RMB and then U and go AFK (instead of LMB) is any more cooperative? Because that's what shielders did, and still do, for years. That was not any more cooperative than what happens in some instances now when you barricade off.

Duh. "Forcing people to play as you want to play"? Yes, reducing the usefulness of cades will do just that, the same way increasing the usefulness of cades over the past couple of years has forced players to completely cade off etc. simply because this is the most efficient way of playing right now. Again, I'm not attacking this way of playing just because I prefer other types of gameplay. I'm simply giving you my opinion on the matter of cades and cading off which Darnocslew brought up.


About RGs going AFK: yes people used to do that and still do, and I remember plenty of games where this resulted in the whole team wiping simply because the shielder didn't move a couple of steps in any direction. However, I don't remember ever going AFK while shielding and I've done quite a lot of it.

[Malong]

Duh. "Forcing people to play as you want to play"? Yes, reducing the usefulness of cades will do just that, the same way increasing the usefulness of cades over the past couple of years has forced players to completely cade off etc. simply because this is the most efficient way of playing right now. Again, I'm not attacking this way of playing just because I prefer other types of gameplay. I'm simply giving you my opinion on the matter of cades and cading off which Darnocslew brought up.

Good job reading. Again, "I don't like public server strategies" is not equivalent to "People don't employ teamwork." Duh!

It also seems you've forgotten that that in "the past couple of years" (actually, a year and two days ago) that Wall Barricades got nerfed. Duh!

About RGs going AFK: yes people used to do that and still do, and I remember plenty of games where this resulted in the whole team wiping simply because the shielder didn't move a couple of steps in any direction. However, I don't remember ever going AFK while shielding and I've done quite a lot of it.

And you think your experience can be projected to the rest of the mod? Is that why "AFK shielding" is a well-known phrase?